dh1
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Post by dh1 on Dec 15, 2022 16:34:01 GMT
I am not a particularly knowledgeable AC lender - unlike others who have commented above - so the following may not be (entirely) correct.
The very confusing and unnecessarily complicated email (15th december, 12:29 in my case) contains important information which is very well buried.
For example, the 30D and 90D notice "Access accounts" will continue to invest in loans until the notice period expiry date. Probably. Except...
AC intend to charge lenders for closing down the retail p2p business (see "Lender Fees" at the end of the email). So it's my fault, then.
I have downloaded my loan details - which you get to from your dashboard by clicking the three dots on the right of the account label (eg 90-Day Access Account (Standard)) and selecting "View Loan Holdings" - and sorted through to find the defaults and high risk loans. The aim here is to estimate likely losses - there will be some despite the email claim that "... Capital will be returned to you as quickly as possible and interest will be provided in the usual way ...".
Just out of interest, I think my capital losses will be around 10%.... Another HMRC claim, then...
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 15, 2022 17:15:55 GMT
gotta think this is the beginning of the end (or the end of the beginning of the end, or the final nail in the coffin - all metaphor suggestions accepted) for retail P2P, no?
Are you using Assetzcapital as a P2P role model, lol? Time to accept you've all been played for some time now. The BS pipe has run dry. What provision funds doing ?
As can be seen from the email retail investors have given up on AC which was always predictable because of AC appalling treatment of them. Bit rich to say the issues are caused with banks raising rates and lenders not investing in AC what did they think would happen once rates started to rise and AC p****d off a lot of their retail investors especially the larger ones with stupid policies like repayments not pro rata. At the time I said this sent a clear message, AC don't want big retail investors, you will be treated as second class, now theses investors are needed to keep the retail side alive they have well and truly p***d off never to return. They tried to see if they could repeat history by creating a new account and cut the old accounts adrift as they have so many times but this time the lenders are not having it, they played this trick once too often. The unconvincing part of this email is that they seem to have no problem to carry on with institutional investing, not sure what these institutions get better than investing elsewhere. So many good REITs going very cheap well below NAV with good yields, good track records, high dividends, stable solid assets as opposed to loans to builders etc. the building projects are so much more risky that the REITs assets, mostly fully rented out for years ahead with stable companies with rent increases built in. REITs at a low price now due to forced selling by pension funds because of LDIs. Look at VSL, loan company, good discount to NAV, great yield, reliable dividends and good track record. Really AC, do you think you can compete, was fine when the government was handing out huge amounts of cash to you but that has gone forever. Once compared PSSL a loan company to AC, SL only answer was we will see what we can do, PSSL taken over at a good profit after paying all dividends at a yield greater than AC, well SL we can see what you can do and I would think a lot of investors will happily tell you what they want to do with you.
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 15, 2022 17:33:02 GMT
More like get ready AC for a huge bill From FOS website You won’t need to pay a case fee for the first 3 complaints against your business that we deal with in each financial year. From the 4th complaint onwards, we charge a case fee of £750.If a case does need to be investigated, it becomes a chargeable case, regardless of the outcome.Hope AC do not find a way to charge these fees to lenders accounts.
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firedog
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Post by firedog on Dec 15, 2022 17:47:05 GMT
Nice wee note from Assetz Exchange distancing themselves from the absolute mess of AC:
"Following today’s announcement from Assetz Capital that they are closing their retail platform we would like to assure investors that we continue to welcome retail investors to the Assetz Exchange platform.
Assetz Exchange is a stand alone company with an independent management team and no cross over of staff. All of our properties are 100% funded by retail investors and we remain resolute in our mission to provide a source of regular, stable, inflation-linked income for investors.
The supported living sector is significantly underfunded with an estimated shortfall of 180,000 people awaiting suitable accommodation over the next ten years. Our goal is to provide an alternative source of funding to help meet the demand for housing in this sector while also providing an easier route for the public to invest in property that provides homes for vulnerable people.
Our business model means the logistics of managing a large retail investor base is relatively simple. We are not fielding a large number of customer queries as we do not have borrowers to chase for payment and the underlying assets remain under investor control.
We are extremely proud of the platform we have built and really appreciate the loyalty and encouragement we receive from you, our investors."
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 15, 2022 17:52:47 GMT
Nice wee note from Assetz Exchange distancing themselves from the absolute mess of AC: "Following today’s announcement from Assetz Capital that they are closing their retail platform we would like to assure investors that we continue to welcome retail investors to the Assetz Exchange platform.
Assetz Exchange is a stand alone company with an independent management team and no cross over of staff. All of our properties are 100% funded by retail investors and we remain resolute in our mission to provide a source of regular, stable, inflation-linked income for investors.
The supported living sector is significantly underfunded with an estimated shortfall of 180,000 people awaiting suitable accommodation over the next ten years. Our goal is to provide an alternative source of funding to help meet the demand for housing in this sector while also providing an easier route for the public to invest in property that provides homes for vulnerable people.
Our business model means the logistics of managing a large retail investor base is relatively simple. We are not fielding a large number of customer queries as we do not have borrowers to chase for payment and the underlying assets remain under investor control.
We are extremely proud of the platform we have built and really appreciate the loyalty and encouragement we receive from you, our investors."
Investors beware, take a look at HOME REIT and it's performance, to say the least not good, there are very good reasons why these are significantly underfunded, DYOR.
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trouble
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Post by trouble on Dec 15, 2022 18:05:21 GMT
Nice wee note from Assetz Exchange distancing themselves from the absolute mess of AC: "Following today’s announcement from Assetz Capital that they are closing their retail platform we would like to assure investors that we continue to welcome retail investors to the Assetz Exchange platform.
Assetz Exchange is a stand alone company with an independent management team and no cross over of staff. All of our properties are 100% funded by retail investors and we remain resolute in our mission to provide a source of regular, stable, inflation-linked income for investors.
The supported living sector is significantly underfunded with an estimated shortfall of 180,000 people awaiting suitable accommodation over the next ten years. Our goal is to provide an alternative source of funding to help meet the demand for housing in this sector while also providing an easier route for the public to invest in property that provides homes for vulnerable people.
Our business model means the logistics of managing a large retail investor base is relatively simple. We are not fielding a large number of customer queries as we do not have borrowers to chase for payment and the underlying assets remain under investor control.
We are extremely proud of the platform we have built and really appreciate the loyalty and encouragement we receive from you, our investors."
''...Assetz Exchange is a stand alone company with an independent management team and no cross over of staff...'' ............... so Stuart Law is not connected and makes no management decisions?
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Post by overthehill on Dec 15, 2022 18:06:25 GMT
Nice wee note from Assetz Exchange distancing themselves from the absolute mess of AC: "Following today’s announcement from Assetz Capital that they are closing their retail platform we would like to assure investors that we continue to welcome retail investors to the Assetz Exchange platform.
Assetz Exchange is a stand alone company with an independent management team and no cross over of staff. All of our properties are 100% funded by retail investors and we remain resolute in our mission to provide a source of regular, stable, inflation-linked income for investors.
The supported living sector is significantly underfunded with an estimated shortfall of 180,000 people awaiting suitable accommodation over the next ten years. Our goal is to provide an alternative source of funding to help meet the demand for housing in this sector while also providing an easier route for the public to invest in property that provides homes for vulnerable people.
Our business model means the logistics of managing a large retail investor base is relatively simple. We are not fielding a large number of customer queries as we do not have borrowers to chase for payment and the underlying assets remain under investor control.
We are extremely proud of the platform we have built and really appreciate the loyalty and encouragement we receive from you, our investors."
Investors beware, take a look at HOME REIT and it's performance, to say the least not good, there are very good reasons why these are significantly underfunded, DYOR.
I would say REIT is for sophisticated investors, I dabbled , got nowhere and exited years ago. There are a lot more donkeys than thoroughbreds. It's pretty similar to property partner in a different wrapper.
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 15, 2022 18:31:32 GMT
Investors beware, take a look at HOME REIT and it's performance, to say the least not good, there are very good reasons why these are significantly underfunded, DYOR.
I would say REIT is for sophisticated investors, I dabbled , got nowhere and exited years ago. There are a lot more donkeys than thoroughbreds. It's pretty similar to property partner in a different wrapper.
For me I find REITs simple to understand, much simpler than AC AAs and especially with the secondary market. They are general or concentrate on a specific area, as they are public listed companies there is lots of good information available. Although past performance is no guarantee of the future it is a good indication of management all the ones I have sailed through covid with no issues except some lost in the share price which was soon corrected. Also lots of investor articles from brokers etc. they are a favourite of pension funds due to the low risk but because of pension fund LDIs they have been forced sellers and also high bank interest rates have suffered share price drops recently but underlying assets are little changed. The banks also like these as so able to borrow money cheaply so there is some gearing many have loans for 2 - 3 years in the 2% to 3% range while rents are bring in 5% to 7% yields to shareholders. I hold a number mostly in warehouses and out of town omni channel retail parks, all close to 100% let for years to come, rent increases built in and no rent defaults. The one exception was HOME REIT which I was never comfortable with as it has political aims, just got it from Primary Bid at a discount and sold out soon after at a small profit. But after my ramble my point why would institutions invest in AC with many better safer investments. But as always DYOR.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Dec 15, 2022 18:31:57 GMT
More like get ready AC for a huge bill From FOS website You won’t need to pay a case fee for the first 3 complaints against your business that we deal with in each financial year. From the 4th complaint onwards, we charge a case fee of £750.If a case does need to be investigated, it becomes a chargeable case, regardless of the outcome.Hope AC do not find a way to charge these fees to lenders accounts. All the costs in working on the complaints, including the £750, any lawyers etc would of course increase the lender fee. The retail side of AC has no other way of raising money now. The more queries from investors and the more complaints, the more likely fees will increase even more. There is no other source of funds. The best option is to encourage AC to strip out as much cost as possible now. Push AC too hard and if I were them I would simply put the retail side of the business into administration at an appropriate time, and pick up the fees as the servicing agent for the administrators.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Dec 15, 2022 18:44:47 GMT
All the costs in working on the complaints, including the £750, any lawyers etc would of course increase the lender fee. The retail side of AC has no other way if raising money now. . The more queries from investors and the more complaints, the more likely fees will increase even more. There is no other source of funds. Well another lose lose for investors, AC and it directors get away scot free and the poor old lenders get hit again does not seem fair to me, if SL and other directors had any morals they would contribute some of the cash they got from AC to help fund the mess, no chance. I don't think it is about morals. It is just business. I wouldn't do anything different. It is not unusual to put a subsidiary into administration or wind down to protect the rest. There is no point throwing good money at a business in wind down.
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 15, 2022 18:47:32 GMT
More like get ready AC for a huge bill From FOS website You won’t need to pay a case fee for the first 3 complaints against your business that we deal with in each financial year. From the 4th complaint onwards, we charge a case fee of £750.If a case does need to be investigated, it becomes a chargeable case, regardless of the outcome.Hope AC do not find a way to charge these fees to lenders accounts. All the costs in working on the complaints, including the £750, any lawyers etc would of course increase the lender fee. The retail side of AC has no other way of raising money now. The more queries from investors and the more complaints, the more likely fees will increase even more. There is no other source of funds. The best option is to encourage AC to strip out as much cost as possible now. Push AC too hard and if I were them I would simply put the retail side of the business into administration at an appropriate time, and pick up the fees as the servicing agent for the administrators. Well this is another lose lose for investors, this seem very unfair to me. If SL and the rest of the directors had any morals they would contribute some of the cash they have gained over the years into these accounts, fat chance. However as you say they will be no doubt be looking how to extract more fees from those who have been unfortunate to trust them.
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alender
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Post by alender on Dec 15, 2022 18:55:57 GMT
Well another lose lose for investors, AC and it directors get away scot free and the poor old lenders get hit again does not seem fair to me, if SL and other directors had any morals they would contribute some of the cash they got from AC to help fund the mess, no chance. I don't think it is about morals. It is just business. I wouldn't do anything different. It is not unusual to put a subsidiary into administration or wind down to protect the rest. There is no point throwing good money at a business in wind down. Sounds like the mafia, "It is just business" This is perhaps where we differ or I differ from ACs directors, In businesses I have run I am very happy to take a profit but if something inadvertently goes wrong my fault or not that causes problems for someone else I try my best the help out with costs taken on my back. People I have dealt with generally are very happy to help me out if needed, I may not be as rich as SL but I sleep at night
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Dec 15, 2022 18:59:57 GMT
<snip
Assetz Exchange is a stand alone company with an independent management team and no cross over of staff. <snip>
What!!!! - the same SL that signed off the email to AC retail lenders today is also 'in command' of AE.
Do they really think that retail lenders are mugs - well they must do.
The shady way they have treated lenders in AC will have a knock on effect with AE. Maybe not today but they've finally shown their true colours which have been slowly bubbling to the surface for the past 4 years will be repeated in AE.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Dec 15, 2022 19:03:59 GMT
The question is will ac act in a reasonable way and manage down the loan book to the end or just let the borrowers run away, take the management fee until they cannot be bothered and run. What has been the track record of other sites in this situation been. Got to say I wish Mr Holden was still around, I had some confidence in his moral position , should have left with him. It's all very sad , the early days of a new banking sector with better outcomes for all, taken over by the old banking sector with the same old outcomes for all.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Dec 15, 2022 19:12:02 GMT
The question is will ac act in a reasonable way and manage down the loan book to the end or just let the borrowers run away, take the management fee until they cannot be bothered and run. What has been the track record of other sites in this situation been. Got to say I wish Mr Holden was still around, I had some confidence in his moral position , should have left with him. It's all very sad , the early days of a new banking sector with better outcomes for all, taken over by the old banking sector with the same old outcomes for all. Sorry if this is rubbing it in as it's not meant to but I leveled off my involvement with AC after AH left then as the ducking and diving started especially with the Q and A section decided to get out as my trust had gone. Plus I refuse to be addressed in a patronising/condescending manner by a member of the management team at AC.
I may not have always agreed with AH but at least he was up front. Sadly that ended after he left and the result is what we today - a mess of AC's own making even though their mail is finger pointing.
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