|
Post by overthehill on Sept 24, 2022 10:42:13 GMT
Summary:
Is everyone complaining again ? The last Labour government collapsed and left the country bankrupt (have you forgotten that nick clegg saved us) and the Conservatives austerity years was a complete waste of time and really popular.
There is nothing to worry about as long as your government is spending money instead of wasting it through incompetence and corruption. Are we getting back all those Boris billions in fraudulent covid loans and PPE contracts for products fit for the skip.
What do you want Liz to do ?
How many financial experts does it take to fit a light bulb? Three. One to hold the bulb and two to turn the ladder.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,233
Likes: 6,038
|
Post by registerme on Sept 24, 2022 11:27:51 GMT
What do you want Liz to do ? Won't happen, but I'd really like her to call a General Election.
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on Sept 24, 2022 11:28:01 GMT
Summary:
Is everyone complaining again ? The last Labour government collapsed and left the country bankrupt (have you forgotten that nick clegg saved us) and the Conservatives austerity years was a complete waste of time and really popular.
There is nothing to worry about as long as your government is spending money instead of wasting it through incompetence and corruption. Are we getting back all those Boris billions in fraudulent covid loans and PPE contracts for products fit for the skip.
What do you want Liz to do ?
How many financial experts does it take to fit a light bulb? Three. One to hold the bulb and two to turn the ladder.
There are too many layers of irony here for it to be clear what you're trying to say. There are financial experts, and there are indisputable facts about finance. The gov ernment seems to set out brashly and boldly to crash into obstacles and fall in holes that everyone can see coming, financial expert or not.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,641
Likes: 4,213
Member is Online
|
Post by agent69 on Sept 24, 2022 11:51:25 GMT
Summary:
Is everyone complaining again ? The last Labour government collapsed and left the country bankrupt (have you forgotten that nick clegg saved us) and the Conservatives austerity years was a complete waste of time and really popular.
There is nothing to worry about as long as your government is spending money instead of wasting it through incompetence and corruption. Are we getting back all those Boris billions in fraudulent covid loans and PPE contracts for products fit for the skip.
What do you want Liz to do ?
How many financial experts does it take to fit a light bulb? Three. One to hold the bulb and two to turn the ladder.
Labour are quick to moan about the last 12 years of Government, but I have a certain amount of sympathy for the last 4 Tory PM'S:
- Call me Dave inherited a financial crisis that nearly sent Northern Rock to the wall.
- Teressa May inherited the will of the majority of British people to leave the EU
- Bo Jo had to deal with Covid
- Liz has to deal with the fallout from the war in Ukraine.
Any one of these 4 events would have had a major impact on the economy. Having to deal with all 4 in 12 years must be a nightmare. Would we be in a better state if Labour had been in power for those 12 years? Answers on a postcard please.
And as a final thought, where would our support for Ukraine be if Jeremy Corbyn was PM?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,045
Likes: 4,841
|
Post by adrianc on Sept 24, 2022 12:09:14 GMT
By the way, income inequality in the UK is already higher than in most other rich countries. Most other rich countries? How can you tell? The writer has cherry-picked from the data (and what's his obsession with Slovenia?). Poorly presented, he doesn't even tell us how many countries are being compared, nor the definition of, or how many countries qualify as, "rich" in his eyes. "Britain is a different story. While the top earners rank fifth, the average household ranks 12th and the poorest 5 per cent rank 15th".
On the global scale, coming 15th doesn't sound too bad to me. Yet another "Let's Bash Britain" article. 🙄 Or is it another case of hiding your head in the sand to deny the blindingly obvious? The fact that the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world has been shouted about for the last six years or so - sixth now. 15th largest economy in the world is Mexico. The usual definition of "rich" countries is G20 members. Why Slovenia? Well, three short decades ago, it was on the edge of a warzone having just broken free from communism. "On present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade."
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Sept 24, 2022 12:42:56 GMT
By the way, income inequality in the UK is already higher than in most other rich countries. Most other rich countries? How can you tell? There's an interactive chart at the bottom of the article where you can select whichever countries you like.
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Sept 24, 2022 15:07:05 GMT
Most other rich countries? How can you tell? The writer has cherry-picked from the data (and what's his obsession with Slovenia?). Poorly presented, he doesn't even tell us how many countries are being compared, nor the definition of, or how many countries qualify as, "rich" in his eyes. "Britain is a different story. While the top earners rank fifth, the average household ranks 12th and the poorest 5 per cent rank 15th".
On the global scale, coming 15th doesn't sound too bad to me. Yet another "Let's Bash Britain" article. 🙄 The usual definition of "rich" countries is G20 members. Except in this case. Most other rich countries? How can you tell? There's an interactive chart at the bottom of the article where you can select whichever countries you like. Not quite. The comparison at the poorest 5 percentile point is between the UK and 31 other nations of Europe. There's no data there for the rest of the world. So the definition of rich countries in this instance is basically "Europe". And the UK comes 14th in the list of the 32 he's chosen. 13 do better than us and 18 do worse. It's hardly the compelling verdict that the UK is a terrible place to live that he'd have you believe. Incidentally, I started life down around the 5 percentile poor range and was able to lift myself out of it by sheer hard work, dedicated study and application. In general in the UK, the opportunities are there for those who want to better themselves. Most of my clothes and shoes were second-hand from jumble sales as a kid, but I was determined my kids wouldn't have that, so I did something about it. Extra jobs, washing cars, golf caddying, collecting pools money, weekend milk round, whatever it took I was there slogging.
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Sept 24, 2022 15:30:53 GMT
"On present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade." Slovenia and Poland net beneficiaries of the EU; Britain erstwhile a net contributor. If their average household has overtaken us, why were we net contributors (and still would have been to this day)?
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Sept 24, 2022 19:25:56 GMT
Not quite. The comparison at the poorest 5 percentile point is between the UK and 31 other nations of Europe. There's no data there for the rest of the world. So the definition of rich countries in this instance is basically "Europe". And the UK comes 14th in the list of the 32 he's chosen. 13 do better than us and 18 do worse. It's hardly the compelling verdict that the UK is a terrible place to live that he'd have you believe. The article is about inequality, i.e. gap between richest and poorest, not just who is poorer. " While the top earners rank fifth, the average household ranks 12th and the poorest 5 per cent rank 15th."
Britain has higher inequality than most other OECD countries. Incidentally, I started life down around the 5 percentile poor range and was able to lift myself out of it by sheer hard work, dedicated study and application. Well done, but that's an example of economic mobility not equality, and would need a whole separate discussion...
|
|
rscal
Posts: 923
Likes: 509
|
Post by rscal on Sept 24, 2022 20:18:01 GMT
No mention of tax allowances [frozen in a period of hyper inflation] AFAICS. Are they really that stupid?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2022 20:49:50 GMT
No mention of tax allowances [frozen in a period of hyper inflation] AFAICS. Are they really that stupid? That is one of the possible explanations for how all this will be paid for. Fiscal drag caused by growth inflation.
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Sept 24, 2022 21:47:14 GMT
Not quite. The comparison at the poorest 5 percentile point is between the UK and 31 other nations of Europe. There's no data there for the rest of the world. So the definition of rich countries in this instance is basically "Europe". And the UK comes 14th in the list of the 32 he's chosen. 13 do better than us and 18 do worse. It's hardly the compelling verdict that the UK is a terrible place to live that he'd have you believe. The article is about inequality, i.e. gap between richest and poorest, not just who is poorer. " While the top earners rank fifth, the average household ranks 12th and the poorest 5 per cent rank 15th."
Britain has higher inequality than most other OECD countries. Another indicator for which is the poverty gap. It's interesting to inspect the Poverty Gap chart in that OECD link. Note how the UK and most other countries exhibit a smaller poverty gap than Norway. Yet the FT article was holding up Norway as a shining example... "Norway’s poorest 5 per cent are the most prosperous bottom 5 per cent in the world. Norway is a good place to live, whether you are rich or poor".
It shows how you can twist statistics to present whatever angle you want (and the MSM bashing Britain is always popular). It's only when you dive deeper into the data (by selecting the age ranges beneath) that you see Norway's pensioners are well looked after - but the poorest people of working age are not so lucky, being some of the most impoverished in the OECD, evidently. Surprisingly, Iceland is the direct opposite! You wouldn't want to be a pensioner there, based on this table. At least the UK doesn't suffer these extreme swings in fortune with age, so we do get some things right!
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 2,695
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Sept 25, 2022 6:24:33 GMT
The article is about inequality, i.e. gap between richest and poorest, not just who is poorer. " While the top earners rank fifth, the average household ranks 12th and the poorest 5 per cent rank 15th."
Britain has higher inequality than most other OECD countries. Another indicator for which is the poverty gap. It's interesting to inspect the Poverty Gap chart in that OECD link. Note how the UK and most other countries exhibit a smaller poverty gap than Norway. Yet the FT article was holding up Norway as a shining example... "Norway’s poorest 5 per cent are the most prosperous bottom 5 per cent in the world. Norway is a good place to live, whether you are rich or poor".
It shows how you can twist statistics to present whatever angle you want (and the MSM bashing Britain is always popular). It's only when you dive deeper into the data (by selecting the age ranges beneath) that you see Norway's pensioners are well looked after - but the poorest people of working age are not so lucky, being some of the most impoverished in the OECD, evidently. Surprisingly, Iceland is the direct opposite! You wouldn't want to be a pensioner there, based on this table. At least the UK doesn't suffer these extreme swings in fortune with age, so we do get some things right! These calculations are all relative to the individual country, the poverty gaps/rates are based on the countries' median wages, how poor you actually feel will depend on the actual median wage and the cost of living in any particular country. Income inequality Gini coefficient is based on frequency distributions of income within a country a bit above my pay grade but it seems a lot of 'in country' variables can affect the values. All interesting stuff but I'm not sure trying to make close comparisons across countries tells us much.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2022 7:23:23 GMT
I'd think the gini coefficient is linked to the productivity problem which itself is really about how much we can sell (not pay for) the average hour's labour. Since our people are badly educated our businesses are generally low tech hence we cannot sell the labour for much.
If you want the gini to get better you have to educate better, which requires a whole bunch of things to change not least the culture of stupidity that we have developed. So the next time some "celebrity" says "oh I'm no use at numbers" etc they should look shamed and mean it, not just smile and get a cheer.
Being and acting dumb and getting praise for it is what drives the gini.
I spoke to a local councillor this week (party does not matter) to discuss a change in town. He could not understand that the work we offer our people is low generally tech and he did not know that wee have two incredible technology businesses in town, he just saw them as jobs. Drives me mad
Of Truss's stupidity removing banker's bonus cap was the only thing that made sense
|
|
|
Post by overthehill on Sept 25, 2022 7:26:53 GMT
Another indicator for which is the poverty gap. It's interesting to inspect the Poverty Gap chart in that OECD link. Note how the UK and most other countries exhibit a smaller poverty gap than Norway. Yet the FT article was holding up Norway as a shining example... "Norway’s poorest 5 per cent are the most prosperous bottom 5 per cent in the world. Norway is a good place to live, whether you are rich or poor".
It shows how you can twist statistics to present whatever angle you want (and the MSM bashing Britain is always popular). It's only when you dive deeper into the data (by selecting the age ranges beneath) that you see Norway's pensioners are well looked after - but the poorest people of working age are not so lucky, being some of the most impoverished in the OECD, evidently. Surprisingly, Iceland is the direct opposite! You wouldn't want to be a pensioner there, based on this table. At least the UK doesn't suffer these extreme swings in fortune with age, so we do get some things right! These calculations are all relative to the individual country, the poverty gaps/rates are based on the countries' median wages, how poor you actually feel will depend on the actual median wage and the cost of living in any particular country. Income inequality Gini coefficient is based on frequency distributions of income within a country a bit above my pay grade but it seems a lot of 'in country' variables can affect the values. All interesting stuff but I'm not sure trying to make close comparisons across countries tells us much.
Lies, damned lies, Trump lies, Boris lies and statistics can be applied anywhere and to almost anything. One of the primary tools in politics. The public and voters are stupid remember, if not in reality in the minds of your politicians. It's time consuming to debunk the constant stream of political 'facts'.
|
|