tonyr
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Post by tonyr on Nov 29, 2022 7:02:05 GMT
Details are at www.assetzcapital.co.uk/blog/an-important-update-regarding-the-access-accounts-Nov-22The stated aim is £1 in to access accounts, £1 out. What's going to happen is that there will be a run on the bank, the access account withdrawl queue will be so full as to be meaningless, discounts on the manual accounts will soar, it'll cease all consumer borrowing and nobody will put any money into AC ever again. They've already done this once at the start of the pandemic, there was half an argument then that things were extrordinary. However they had lots of options just now, things could have been controlled. Sometimes hitting it with a hammer is not a good way to fix it. EDIT: I've just found the thread p2pindependentforum.com/thread/19598/future-ac-retail-lenders?page=7
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alender
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Post by alender on Nov 29, 2022 9:19:26 GMT
Details are at www.assetzcapital.co.uk/blog/an-important-update-regarding-the-access-accounts-Nov-22The stated aim is £1 in to access accounts, £1 out. What's going to happen is that there will be a run on the bank, the access account withdrawl queue will be so full as to be meaningless, discounts on the manual accounts will soar, it'll cease all consumer borrowing and nobody will put any money into AC ever again. They've already done this once at the start of the pandemic, there was half an argument then that things were extrordinary. However they had lots of options just now, things could have been controlled. Sometimes hitting it with a hammer is not a good way to fix it. EDIT: I've just found the thread p2pindependentforum.com/thread/19598/future-ac-retail-lenders?page=7Yep, policy is to keep lenders locked in as long as possible as there is no mention of paying withdrawals from repayments, it can be seen from AC treatment of lenders in the first lock in that they regarded lenders as unimportant and once they got hold of an investors money they did what they liked with it hence the large cash mountain they created in the AAs when there was a large queue for withdrawals. I was fearful at the time they would create new accounts and cast the AAs a drift as I posted and got as lot of flack from the friends and family of AC, luckily for me they did not do this at the time and gave me a chance to get out however they have floated this idea now. If AC think they can get away with it they will create new Accounts and the AAs will go the same way as all the other AC accounts, all badly for the lenders. Not one of AC accounts have ended well for the investors. From the look of it AC have turned the accounts into PIBs with a variable rate set by AC, the only way out will probably be action by lenders in the courts, complaints to the FOM or the FCA step in if they are not all asleep working from home.
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Nov 29, 2022 12:23:27 GMT
Details are at www.assetzcapital.co.uk/blog/an-important-update-regarding-the-access-accounts-Nov-22The stated aim is £1 in to access accounts, £1 out. What's going to happen is that there will be a run on the bank, the access account withdrawl queue will be so full as to be meaningless, discounts on the manual accounts will soar, it'll cease all consumer borrowing and nobody will put any money into AC ever again. They've already done this once at the start of the pandemic, there was half an argument then that things were extrordinary. However they had lots of options just now, things could have been controlled. Sometimes hitting it with a hammer is not a good way to fix it. EDIT: I've just found the thread p2pindependentforum.com/thread/19598/future-ac-retail-lenders?page=7Yep, policy is to keep lenders locked in as long as possible as there is no mention of paying withdrawals from repayments, it can be seen from AC treatment of lenders in the first lock in that they regarded lenders as unimportant and once they got hold of an investors money they did what they liked with it hence the large cash mountain they created in the AAs when there was a large queue for withdrawals. I was fearful at the time they would create new accounts and cast the AAs a drift as I posted and got as lot of flack from the friends and family of AC, luckily for me they did not do this at the time and gave me a chance to get out however they have floated this idea now. If AC think they can get away with it they will create new Accounts and the AAs will go the same way as all the other AC accounts, all badly for the lenders. Not one of AC accounts have ended well for the investors. From the look of it AC have turned the accounts into PIBs with a variable rate set by AC, the only way out will probably be action by lenders in the courts, complaints to the FOM or the FCA step in if they are not all asleep working from home. Any thoughts on the future/possible closure of the Manual Lending Account also? After all, what is left to do but make all investments 'pooled'...
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alender
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Post by alender on Nov 29, 2022 12:44:23 GMT
Yep, policy is to keep lenders locked in as long as possible as there is no mention of paying withdrawals from repayments, it can be seen from AC treatment of lenders in the first lock in that they regarded lenders as unimportant and once they got hold of an investors money they did what they liked with it hence the large cash mountain they created in the AAs when there was a large queue for withdrawals. I was fearful at the time they would create new accounts and cast the AAs a drift as I posted and got as lot of flack from the friends and family of AC, luckily for me they did not do this at the time and gave me a chance to get out however they have floated this idea now. If AC think they can get away with it they will create new Accounts and the AAs will go the same way as all the other AC accounts, all badly for the lenders. Not one of AC accounts have ended well for the investors. From the look of it AC have turned the accounts into PIBs with a variable rate set by AC, the only way out will probably be action by lenders in the courts, complaints to the FOM or the FCA step in if they are not all asleep working from home. Any thoughts on the future/possible closure of the Manual Lending Account also? After all, what is left to do but make all investments 'pooled'... Difficult one, I suspect too many legal problems combining the accounts, as this is supposed to be P2P so it is the lender that owns their own MLA loans and I could not see people with the best MLA loans agreeing to this as they would not want to be diluted with poorer loans and would no doubt be grounds for FOM complaints. However I assume there are no clauses in the T&Cs which will allow this I would think the best likely alternate is to pool all the AAs and put these accounts in run off paying money as it comes in on a pro rata bases to lenders which is not required for future tranches, unfortunately all AC have suggested is the replace the withdrawals with new investments which is not going to happen. It is very possible in the medium term for interest rates to fall making these accounts competitive again but with now 2 lock ins (first was understandable, too long and but badly handled) I do not see many people wanting to put hard earned money into these accounts.
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Post by davefoz on Nov 29, 2022 13:54:51 GMT
They really are a vile organisation. GBBA 1 to GBBA2 to Access accounts to something new. Leaving lenders out of pocket, provision funds empty, whilst charging borrowers extortionate fees. Any capital the company raises is meanwhile spent on directors salaries and Stuart Bentleys !
This Capital capture will remain in place as its the only way the company survives … administration is clearly not preferable. That said I can’t understand why anyone would invest in this shower post the Covid fiasco.
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jcb208
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Post by jcb208 on Nov 30, 2022 5:42:24 GMT
Asking for a friend,will this queue effect withdrawal requests action last week from the 90 day account or will the money be available after the notice period
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Nov 30, 2022 7:34:19 GMT
jcb208 I think the answers are (a) yes and (b) no unless (a) somebody buys your loans when the notice period is up AND (b) somebody pays money into AC that matches what you want to withdraw. Had enough (a)'s and (b)'s? In short, the money is locked in and will probably remain that way. Effectively the AC p2p platform no longer functioning as such - no loans and no withdrawals.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 30, 2022 9:07:30 GMT
Yes, elsewhere it might be called a wind down, but giving priority to AC's contractual loan funding commitments. A year will pass before any money starts to be returned.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Nov 30, 2022 10:22:02 GMT
Funds are still flowing at a discount. Anyone wanting out can do it much like in any other market.
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alender
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Post by alender on Nov 30, 2022 12:27:48 GMT
Funds are still flowing at a discount. Anyone wanting out can do it much like in any other market. This may well be true but those who need some funds in the next year or so will lose money which is solely cause by the mismanagement of these accounts by AC and made worse by AC commissions, would be much fairer if AC also took a hit. As can be seen this problem was caused by rising interest rates which is not abnormal but easily predictable, in this case was widely predicted. Therefore the AAs can only function properly in normal market conditions when intertest rates are stable or falling. There are 6 scenarios 1. Interest rates fall, AC reduce rates, investor losses out against fixed term deposits and other investments like equities, REITs, etc which generally rise on falling interest rates but at least has access to funds. 2. Interest rates are stable, investor neutral. 3. Interest rates rise, investor get a bit more interest but less than other investments and then locked in for an indeterminate period with risk to capital and loses on interest (against other investments) and loss of capital if money needed before end of lock in if this ever happens. 4. There can also be other factors to bring these accounts down even without falling interest rates in normal market conditions e.g. better returns elsewhere (other P2P companies, shares etc), high taxation leaving less for investments, perhaps even the removal of the VAT exemption for private school fees planed by labour so an out flow of funds causing a lock in and loses. 5. Black swan event, investor locked in and a high risk to capital and investor not able to take opportunities to make large profits elsewhere which is normal in these conditions as can be seen during lockdown. 6. Some sort of problems for AC outside the ones that effect the whole financial market, this could be general mismanagement of funds, high defaults due to poor investments perhaps caused by chasing commissions, fraud, falling property prices to name a few. The investor loses interest, capital and will no doubt be locked in for a long time to get at the diminished funds. Therefore the investor loses in 5 out of 6, in 4 the investor is locked in, even without special events which always occur from time to time the investor loses 3 out of 4 which will be normal market conditions outside of AC. Then the question is what is the point of these accounts except to make the directors wealthy.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Nov 30, 2022 12:46:14 GMT
It seems at AC hq nothing has changed. I'm glad I took the hit on secondary market sell out fees post covid. At the time it went against my investment focus but my gut was right. Still paying the price for all of the default loans with prob no hope of any money back. Am I understanding this correctly that AC are changing account names to avoid "provision" fund payouts?
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 30, 2022 12:50:31 GMT
Funds are still flowing at a discount. Anyone wanting out can do it much like in any other market. Thanks, I had the impression that the discount option was not operating - for some reason. So, once the notice period is up there is a queue for repayment cash which you can jump by offering a discount to new investment cash? In an emergency that's useful.
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Post by Ace on Nov 30, 2022 13:15:38 GMT
Funds are still flowing at a discount. Anyone wanting out can do it much like in any other market. Thanks, I had the impression that the discount option was not operating - for some reason. So, once the notice period is up there is a queue for repayment cash which you can jump by offering a discount to new investment cash? In an emergency that's useful. Yes, that's correct. The discount required to exit has fluctuated quite a bit, but right now you can go straight to the head of the queue by offering anything above a 0.59% discount.
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Post by davefoz on Nov 30, 2022 13:26:48 GMT
Question … and please don’t think I’m being smug.
But why would anyone invest in AC when you’ve got Loanpad with and impeccable record offering a broadly similar product to the access accounts with a lower LTV with higher interest.
If your after an individual loan again head over to SOMO - again never lost investors a penny and offer higher returns (7.2 - 10.2%), with LTVs ranging between 20-70%
Is it that investors genuinely felt there was an advantage being invested in AC or is it ignorance of other alternatives ?
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alender
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Post by alender on Nov 30, 2022 13:38:26 GMT
Funds are still flowing at a discount. Anyone wanting out can do it much like in any other market. Thanks, I had the impression that the discount option was not operating - for some reason. So, once the notice period is up there is a queue for repayment cash which you can jump by offering a discount to new investment cash? In an emergency that's useful. From what I can see there is no chance of repayments without discounts, it will probably be as before, you go into a separate queues depending on discount, if say the greatest discount is 5% you can create your own queue at 5.01% and if no one undercuts you you are the next out if there is a willing buyer. If you go for 5% you enter this queue at the end and if there are buyers at this level you will move up to queue until you get bought out if no one undercuts you, then the next queue in line is 4.99% and so on down to 0%. Of course this brings the same tax questions as before which I do not believe were ever answered. If you get 3% interest and sell out at 3% discount in the same tax year is the 3% interest taxed (if over interest tax threshold) and/or used in your overall income for tax bands or do these cancel each other out, if not is 3% loss a capital loss for tax purposes. This has now become a complex hybrid financial instrument traded at discount with variable rate of interest with no easy tax answers. Of course you could buy at 5% discount and sell at 3% giving what is probably a capital gain for tax purposes, the question the for capital losses is an especially difficult one as losses may only be used against income if the loan is written off, but this was designed for loses from one loan offset again income from other loans not trading an existing basket of loans (AAs) either way a minefield. The is even more complex if you invest company funds as the profits/loses have to kept in the correct place on the books as well as declared for tax. I would also assume the bad loans rule comes into play again where once a loan has gone bad in the AAs and you can't sell it and it is left with so when you sell out only the good loans are sold and the bad ones are kept with you, this then add to the tax complexities, deja vu all over again. Please no speculative replies on tax we went thought this before, however if you do know how the tax is handled this will be very helpful to those that trade the loans.
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