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Post by flatbroke on Dec 4, 2022 17:57:15 GMT
I bought our first de-humidifier about 35 years ago. We bought it because we noticed that our white appliances had started to rust after double glazing was installed. The household humidity in winter, measured by an inexpensive hygrometer, dropped from 80% to about 50%. Rusting ceased.
After that we also started to use the dehumidifier for drying clothes and have done so ever since. A maiden full is dry in about 8 hours, eg overnight.
The brand of the device was EBAC. When therefore that device failed after about 25 years of operation we bought another EBAC. This tends to be used only in the colder months from October to May predominantly for drying clothes. It’s quieter than the old device. As it’s now 10 years old and going strong it can be said to be reliable. I don’t recognise the 3 year life reported by Travolta.
An advantage of the use of a dehumidifier in drying clothes is that the clothes do not lose fibres in the process. Tumble dryers have to be cleaned of these fibres on a regular basis; loss of fibres equals wear.
In regard to the heating the home, note that not only do dehumidifiers dry the air but also the walls. This then reduces the heat required to raise the house temperature, since you’re not heating up water molecules.
A further benefit of a dehumidifier is that it is source of almost pure water which can have many uses. For example we use it
• for our floor steam cleaner, in which therefore the hard water filter has never had to be changed;
• for washing our external windows (with a sprayer and squeegee), since it leaves no salts when it dries; and
• finally any surplus is added to our washing machine during the fill process which reduces, admittedly by a small amount, the machine’s water consumption.
I imagine that the water could be used in a lead acid battery but I don’t know that for certain.
I have not conducted any energy consumption tests so I cannot comment on that aspect.
We’re very pleased with our EBAC – and it’s manufactured here in the UK.
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smee
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Post by smee on Dec 4, 2022 20:27:14 GMT
I have two dehumidifiers and I wouldn’t be without them. I have one in a heated room and it dries even big sheets overnight. The other one is in an unheated room. I was getting mould around the windows and this unit completely cleared it. Not only that, the raised temperature when walking into the room is very noticeable. I have 2 12l ones of different makes and I am pleased with both. Even without any wet washing I am amazed at the amount of moisture they extract from the air in a modern bungalow with just a single occupant.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Dec 4, 2022 22:12:28 GMT
Haven't read the full thread so apologies if already mentioned:- Be VERY careful with a dehumidifier and monitor it closely, they can and will warp your doors horribly, to the point they won't close and need replacing. My boiler is in the kitchen and I leave one window very slightly open before I hang my highly spun washing on a large airing rack in the kitchen, it dries completely overnight and is ready by morning. I keep the kitchen door closed to "seal" the excess air moisture off from causing problems in the rest of the bungalow.  |
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 4, 2022 22:34:16 GMT
Haven't read the full thread so apologies if already mentioned:- Be VERY careful with a dehumidifier and monitor it closely, they can and will warp your doors horribly, to the point they won't close and need replacing. My boiler is in the kitchen and I leave one window very slightly open before I hang my highly spun washing on a large airing rack in the kitchen, it dries completely overnight and is ready by morning. I keep the kitchen door closed to "seal" the excess air moisture off from causing problems in the rest of the bungalow. Must admit never had that problem so far - what are you using One of the extra large industrial dehumidifiers "borrowed" from a construction site?
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Dec 4, 2022 22:50:04 GMT
Yes, given no-one (so far) has mentioned or experienced such problems, mine must have serious grunt!  I bought it in the early 80s when they were difficult to find and EBAC was just about the only "Domestic" model you could buy. Mine's still going strong but I do have to be careful to keep it on "2" or so (it goes to "10" ) or it warps the doors. Seems the dinky modern Domestic ones aren't quite as powerful, which is probably a good thing. |
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 5, 2022 0:21:02 GMT
PS: where does the latent energy come from that allows output to exceed input?
You have to put energy into a kettle to boil water because the steam holds onto the energy, until it condenses when that energy is released as heat. You should find more warm air coming out of a dehumidifier than can be accounted for by the modest electricity consumed.This sounds like alchemy and too good to be true!  If the heat energy coming out really can exceed "the modest electrical energy consumed", why aren't we distributing wet washing in every room and heating our houses with dehumidifiers? This sceptic will take some persuading
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sqh
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Post by sqh on Dec 5, 2022 3:00:23 GMT
Following on from the Electric Auditing post.... Dehumidifiers: thinking of getting one to put in the 'laundry room'. Have been successful in managing to persuade the other half to not use the tumble dryer, but that is giving challenges in terms of getting washing dry/sense of damp in the room currently labelled "the laundry room" (CH not on sufficiently long to solve the problem). So question is: is it worth getting a dehumidifier, from a cost/energy viewpoint. They are actually a bit difficult to get at the moment but are available. The power consumption range appears to be around 250W (albeit that depends on setting). They are also around £150 (a bit less worried about that as I'm sure we can find some other occasional uses for it, plus I'm sure it will last for a decent time). Would we be better off just doing short 10-15min tumble dry before hanging out? Another alternative is a centrifugal spin dryer. Most operate at 2800 RPM, but some go to 3200 RPM which will squeeze most of the water from clothing in very quick time. I would recommend getting an extended warranty, I bought second hand on ebay and it didn't last very long before it started falling apart, although I don't know how much use it had in the past.
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 5, 2022 7:57:19 GMT
You have to put energy into a kettle to boil water because the steam holds onto the energy, until it condenses when that energy is released as heat. You should find more warm air coming out of a dehumidifier than can be accounted for by the modest electricity consumed.This sounds like alchemy and too good to be true! If the heat energy coming out really can exceed "the modest electrical energy consumed", why aren't we distributing wet washing in every room and heating our houses with dehumidifiers? This sceptic will take some persuading I have seen some people describe a dehumidifier as similar to a fridge but to much science for me - but i believe and stand to be corrected that the damp air going into a humidifier is cooled to remove the moisture via condensation and then moved across another coil to warm back up to the approx room temperature it was when it entered the unit but now minus the water.We we first start ours the air coming out the back is cool but after a while it will become mildly warm but not hot (if it become very hot i would worry and also check the HEPA filter at the back is clear) But you are right you probably cannot replace a heating system with One in every room as while The net effect is a warmer room/home they are probably not going to replace your CH in mid winter  Most good Ones also have a anti-frost/freeze warning light or switch if the unit is running to cold as they need some level of heat to run correctly but i have never had one freeze yet
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 5, 2022 9:00:10 GMT
You have to put energy into a kettle to boil water because the steam holds onto the energy, until it condenses when that energy is released as heat. You should find more warm air coming out of a dehumidifier than can be accounted for by the modest electricity consumed.This sounds like alchemy and too good to be true! If the heat energy coming out really can exceed "the modest electrical energy consumed", why aren't we distributing wet washing in every room and heating our houses with dehumidifiers? This sceptic will take some persuading When washing dries it soaks up heat from the environment as the water turns into water vapour which holds onto latent heat until it condenses again. You can only get back (some of) the energy you previously put into your heating system which has warmed the air around the wet laundry and dried the washing, so no alchemy. The main benefit of a dehumidifier is reduced condensation and the consequent mould, not the small amount of heat produced. That heat would be produced anyway but would probably leak to the outside via the cold surfaces that it condenses on. So no energy is produced from nothing (sadly) but it is produced in a more useful way. Now science moves on and it is possible that I have been teaching out of date physics for decades, but that is how it used to be.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 5, 2022 10:14:52 GMT
This sounds like alchemy and too good to be true! If the heat energy coming out really can exceed "the modest electrical energy consumed", why aren't we distributing wet washing in every room and heating our houses with dehumidifiers? This sceptic will take some persuading When washing dries it soaks up heat from the environment as the water turns into water vapour which holds onto latent heat until it condenses again. You can only get back (some of) the energy you previously put into your heating system which has warmed the air around the wet laundry and dried the washing, so no alchemy. The main benefit of a dehumidifier is reduced condensation and the consequent mould, not the small amount of heat produced. That heat would be produced anyway but would probably leak to the outside via the cold surfaces that it condenses on. So no energy is produced from nothing (sadly) but it is produced in a more useful way. Now science moves on and it is possible that I have been teaching out of date physics for decades, but that is how it used to be. LOL. Of course you are correct (you don't need me to tell you that of course) that latent energy is involved in transitioning between liquid and gaseous forms. (which is why I always try to kill my kettle before it boils, not leave it to auto cut off). I've forgotten more of my physics than I care to think about. However...according to a table I'm looking at, the heat of vaporisation at sea level atmospheric pressure and 18 oC is 683 Wh/kG. Extraction rates vary (and vary with temperature), but as an example of one I'm looking at: extraction rate = (up to) 12l /pday, which is 1/2 l/hour (with associated 340 Wh latent heat) with a 250W motor. Still, as they are designed primarily to dehumidify rather than act as e.g. a heat pump, I'm not sure that other losses in the system might override that, though it's difficult to see how those other losses would ultimately be other than through heat generation. They are of course more efficient at higher ambient operating temperatures.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 5, 2022 11:05:59 GMT
This sounds like alchemy and too good to be true! If the heat energy coming out really can exceed "the modest electrical energy consumed", why aren't we distributing wet washing in every room and heating our houses with dehumidifiers? This sceptic will take some persuading I have seen some people describe a dehumidifier as similar to a fridge but to much science for me - but i believe and stand to be corrected that the damp air going into a humidifier is cooled to remove the moisture via condensation and then moved across another coil to warm back up to the approx room temperature it was when it entered the unit but now minus the water.We we first start ours the air coming out the back is cool but after a while it will become mildly warm but not hot (if it become very hot i would worry and also check the HEPA filter at the back is clear) But you are right you probably cannot replace a heating system with One in every room as while The net effect is a warmer room/home they are probably not going to replace your CH in mid winter Most good Ones also have a anti-frost/freeze warning light or switch if the unit is running to cold as they need some level of heat to run correctly but i have never had one freeze yet I had one back in the 80's. As I recall very cold liquid is pumped through coils at the back and this causes moisture in the air to condense and freeze on the outside of the coils. Then warm liquid gets pumped through the coils and the frozen condensate melts and drips into the collection bin. Got rid of it when I had double glazing and cavity wall insulation installed.
I'm far too lazy to mess around when drying cloths. I set the washer / dryer to iron dry (which doesn't take a lot longer than just wash), and when it comes out damp I hang it up in the living room for 30 minutes and it's dry.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 5, 2022 11:18:34 GMT
Call me old fashioned but I just use a clothes horse. Bought it from a pound store twenty years ago and it's still going strong.
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macq
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Post by macq on Dec 5, 2022 11:46:45 GMT
I have seen some people describe a dehumidifier as similar to a fridge but to much science for me - but i believe and stand to be corrected that the damp air going into a humidifier is cooled to remove the moisture via condensation and then moved across another coil to warm back up to the approx room temperature it was when it entered the unit but now minus the water.We we first start ours the air coming out the back is cool but after a while it will become mildly warm but not hot (if it become very hot i would worry and also check the HEPA filter at the back is clear) But you are right you probably cannot replace a heating system with One in every room as while The net effect is a warmer room/home they are probably not going to replace your CH in mid winter Most good Ones also have a anti-frost/freeze warning light or switch if the unit is running to cold as they need some level of heat to run correctly but i have never had one freeze yet I had one back in the 80's. As I recall very cold liquid is pumped through coils at the back and this causes moisture in the air to condense and freeze on the outside of the coils. Then warm liquid gets pumped through the coils and the frozen condensate melts and drips into the collection bin. Got rid of it when I had double glazing and cavity wall insulation installed.
I'm far too lazy to mess around when drying cloths. I set the washer / dryer to iron dry (which doesn't take a lot longer than just wash), and when it comes out damp I hang it up in the living room for 30 minutes and it's dry.
Sounds better your way Was also going to mention mrs macq's Tit-bits tip of the week (for people of a certain age) about using the drying balls that you put in a tumble dry but even less sure of that science
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 5, 2022 12:53:36 GMT
When washing dries it soaks up heat from the environment as the water turns into water vapour which holds onto latent heat until it condenses again. You can only get back (some of) the energy you previously put into your heating system which has warmed the air around the wet laundry and dried the washing, so no alchemy. The main benefit of a dehumidifier is reduced condensation and the consequent mould, not the small amount of heat produced. That heat would be produced anyway but would probably leak to the outside via the cold surfaces that it condenses on. So no energy is produced from nothing (sadly) but it is produced in a more useful way. Now science moves on and it is possible that I have been teaching out of date physics for decades, but that is how it used to be. LOL. Of course you are correct (you don't need me to tell you that of course) that latent energy is involved in transitioning between liquid and gaseous forms. (which is why I always try to kill my kettle before it boils, not leave it to auto cut off). I've forgotten more of my physics than I care to think about. However...according to a table I'm looking at, the heat of vaporisation at sea level atmospheric pressure and 18 oC is 683 Wh/kG. Extraction rates vary (and vary with temperature), but as an example of one I'm looking at: extraction rate = (up to) 12l /pday, which is 1/2 l/hour (with associated 340 Wh latent heat) with a 250W motor. Still, as they are designed primarily to dehumidify rather than act as e.g. a heat pump, I'm not sure that other losses in the system might override that, though it's difficult to see how those other losses would ultimately be other than through heat generation. They are of course more efficient at higher ambient operating temperatures. I was hoping to put some numbers to this, but you've beaten me to it. Taking your house as a closed system, the net effect energy-wise is that you will consume an additional 250Wh every hour, or 6kWh per day. In return, moving the condensate to the appliance itself and away from walls/windows should help combat the damage from condensation... at a cost. littleoldlady, I see where you're coming from now - apologies for flippancy.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 5, 2022 13:22:34 GMT
LOL. Of course you are correct (you don't need me to tell you that of course) that latent energy is involved in transitioning between liquid and gaseous forms. (which is why I always try to kill my kettle before it boils, not leave it to auto cut off). I've forgotten more of my physics than I care to think about. However...according to a table I'm looking at, the heat of vaporisation at sea level atmospheric pressure and 18 oC is 683 Wh/kG. Extraction rates vary (and vary with temperature), but as an example of one I'm looking at: extraction rate = (up to) 12l /pday, which is 1/2 l/hour (with associated 340 Wh latent heat) with a 250W motor. Still, as they are designed primarily to dehumidify rather than act as e.g. a heat pump, I'm not sure that other losses in the system might override that, though it's difficult to see how those other losses would ultimately be other than through heat generation. They are of course more efficient at higher ambient operating temperatures. I was hoping to put some numbers to this, but you've beaten me to it. Taking your house as a closed system, the net effect energy-wise is that you will consume an additional 250Wh every hour, or 6kWh per day. In return, moving the condensate to the appliance itself and away from walls/windows should help combat the damage from condensation... at a cost. littleoldlady , I see where you're coming from now - apologies for flippancy. The point that littleoldlady was making though was what about the release of latent heat energy resulting in a heating benefit. In the case above (which of course is very wet finger in the air numbers, since it depends on the actual extraction rate for any given operating environment) the 'on the face of it' numbers is a net gain of approx 100Wh during running [340Wh for 250 input]. Which means you could reduce consumption from your core heating source. I'm dubious you'll actually get that performance (apart from the fact it's entirely possible I've made fundamental errors in my calculations) though, as it is using the stated extraction rate which is likely to be for the optimal operating conditions (and which will require a higher ambient temperature to boot). Its all a touch academic however (albeit interesting) at this specific time: While figuring out whether its worth getting one and what type, the only ones which were attractive have now gone out of stock at the places I was looking (or perhaps a 5 week delivery time). Serves me right, but then it may only have happened as I added one to a basket.
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Most good Ones also have a anti-frost/freeze warning light or switch if the unit is running to cold as they need some level of heat to run correctly but i have never had one freeze yet