ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 2, 2024 9:26:30 GMT
As of 31 Dec Capital outstanding £109,737,169 Free Cash £5.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.77m Loans 216 Default 31 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.2m Arrears £9.5m Repaid 8 (£1.7m) Interest received c331k representing approx 90% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Likely to be a shortfall on the interest this month, mainly due to payment phasing & delays due to festive period. If they did pay less that 4% interest on AA accounts and this was due to delays from borrowers, shouldn't this be accrued and then included as an extra interst income in the month it is finally paid? Didn't Assetz do something similar with the fees they were charging? Dont think so. Dont think its structured like that with a link to loan specific interest payments. Its a capped account so its basically a big pot that the interest from loan holdings gets paid into. At beginning of month, interest is paid out from balance up to 4% and anything left goes to PF so the pot is left empty. Any interest that flows in the following month, even if its arrears will just go towards the interest the following month & then the PF. Fees are different, they are loan specific, payable when the loan makes the interest payment.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jan 2, 2024 11:01:23 GMT
As of 31 Dec Capital outstanding £109,737,169 Free Cash £5.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.77m Loans 216 Default 31 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.2m Arrears £9.5m Repaid 8 (£1.7m) Interest received c331k representing approx 90% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Likely to be a shortfall on the interest this month, mainly due to payment phasing & delays due to festive period.Do you think this clause may kick in regarding interest on any loans? It is the intention of the Directors of APFL that, subject to funds being available, they would agree to pay out under all reasonable circumstances where, firstly, there is a genuine capital loss on a defaulted loan and, secondly, where there is a delayed / missed payment on a performing loan for an Access Account that would otherwise affect it paying target rate (the latter operation does not apply to any discontinued Investment Accounts).
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Post by bob2010 on Jan 2, 2024 12:08:11 GMT
Only 3% interest paid this month.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 2, 2024 12:35:10 GMT
As of 31 Dec Capital outstanding £109,737,169 Free Cash £5.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.77m Loans 216 Default 31 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.2m Arrears £9.5m Repaid 8 (£1.7m) Interest received c331k representing approx 90% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Likely to be a shortfall on the interest this month, mainly due to payment phasing & delays due to festive period.Do you think this clause may kick in regarding interest on any loans? It is the intention of the Directors of APFL that, subject to funds being available, they would agree to pay out under all reasonable circumstances where, firstly, there is a genuine capital loss on a defaulted loan and, secondly, where there is a delayed / missed payment on a performing loan for an Access Account that would otherwise affect it paying target rate (the latter operation does not apply to any discontinued Investment Accounts).Well, given its just paid 3% ... Id take that as a no. Next question is why is the payment that low Edit Just run the numbers & its right. About £40m not paying interest so fee charges on about £65m, thats c£50,000 incl some arrears. That leaves bout £280k in the pot which is 3% on £109m
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jan 2, 2024 17:44:51 GMT
Do you think this clause may kick in regarding interest on any loans? It is the intention of the Directors of APFL that, subject to funds being available, they would agree to pay out under all reasonable circumstances where, firstly, there is a genuine capital loss on a defaulted loan and, secondly, where there is a delayed / missed payment on a performing loan for an Access Account that would otherwise affect it paying target rate (the latter operation does not apply to any discontinued Investment Accounts).Well, given its just paid 3% ... Id take that as a no. Next question is why is the payment that low Edit Just run the numbers & its right. About £40m not paying interest so fee charges on about £65m, thats c£50,000 incl some arrears. That leaves bout £280k in the pot which is 3% on £109m I just looked at one performing loan as an example 1624. December interest hasn't been paid so ideally the PF would have covered it. There is nothing in the PF documentation about a 7 day grace period. I would have thought reading the PF documentation this is exactly when the PF should kick it. An interest payment a few days late on a performing loan. I wonder if the PF has ever kicked in for Access Accounts for interest payments, albeit it is discretionary. If it has never kicked for any loan like this when the target rate hasn't been met then that feels like miss selling to me, in a similar way to the miss selling on the Investment Accounts when everyone got some interest back after I complained a few years ago. I have just put in a similar complaint to the one that was previously upheld for the Investment Accounts so let's see what happens. I don't have much in the Access Accounts but I am curious how AC will respond this time having upheld a similar complaint in the past. It may make very little difference, I haven’t looked at how many loans may be impacted if it does get upheld.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 2, 2024 20:20:21 GMT
Well, given its just paid 3% ... Id take that as a no. Next question is why is the payment that low Edit Just run the numbers & its right. About £40m not paying interest so fee charges on about £65m, thats c£50,000 incl some arrears. That leaves bout £280k in the pot which is 3% on £109m I just looked at one performing loan as an example 1624. December interest hasn't been paid so ideally the PF would have covered it. There is nothing in the PF documentation about a 7 day grace period. I would have thought reading the PF documentation this is exactly when the PF should kick it. An interest payment a few days late on a performing loan. I wonder if the PF has ever kicked in for Access Accounts for interest payments, albeit it is discretionary. If it has never kicked for any loan like this when the target rate hasn't been met then that feels like miss selling to me, in a similar way to the miss selling on the Investment Accounts when everyone got some interest back after I complained a few years ago. I have just put in a similar complaint to the one that was previously upheld for the Investment Accounts so let's see what happens. I don't have much in the Access Accounts but I am curious how AC will respond this time having upheld a similar complaint in the past. It may make very little difference, I haven’t looked at how many loans may be impacted if it does get upheld. There is precedent as AC used the PF to make payments on AA accounts in May 2020 & on the 30 & 90 day accounts in Dec 2020 to hit the target rate, They, however, didnt use it in July 2020 when the 90 day missed its target rate As its a regulatory requirement to inform lenders when the PF is used or quarterly I would assume there have been no further uses but then given AC have been somewhat erratic in their compliance with COBS in relation to PF that may be false There are about 20 'performing' loans that have failed to make interest payments prior to EOM. Its inevitable where loans are scheduled to make payments on 29, 30, 31 that this will mean some months they make two payments, others none. I suspect the net interest the loanbook is generating isnt sufficient to cover those months when these loans dont make a payment ... thats when the PF should act as a smoothing device. Not entirely sure that the PF is set up that way, to be able to cover payments for specific loans & then reclaim them when paid. More likely when used it just paid a sum to allow the target to be met then that was replenished as normal from the following months monthly surplus (or not) The problem is that the PF is not likely to be replenished or increased currently so making interest payments would undermine its primary purpose of covering capital losses. The late payments today totalled about £38k for AA which would have increased the payout to 3.4-3.5%
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loadsahope
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Post by loadsahope on Jan 5, 2024 16:25:30 GMT
As of 31 Dec Capital outstanding £109,737,169 Free Cash £5.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.77m Loans 216 Default 31 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.2m Arrears £9.5m Repaid 8 (£1.7m) Interest received c331k representing approx 90% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Likely to be a shortfall on the interest this month, mainly due to payment phasing & delays due to festive period. Does anyone know what the position is for ring-fenced funds? Do they still exist? There are a number of loans which have been suspect/impaired for longer than the restrictions, so in theory (and assuming I've understood the process correctly) there should be ring-fenced funds associated with those, which is managed separately from the provision fund. What would trigger Ass**** to start releasing those funds? Quite possible this has been asked and answered before, but I haven't been able to find a thread - if there is one a link would be appreciated.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 5, 2024 17:02:37 GMT
As of 31 Dec Capital outstanding £109,737,169 Free Cash £5.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.77m Loans 216 Default 31 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.2m Arrears £9.5m Repaid 8 (£1.7m) Interest received c331k representing approx 90% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Likely to be a shortfall on the interest this month, mainly due to payment phasing & delays due to festive period. Does anyone know what the position is for ring-fenced funds? Do they still exist? There are a number of loans which have been suspect/impaired for longer than the restrictions, so in theory (and assuming I've understood the process correctly) there should be ring-fenced funds associated with those, which is managed separately from the provision fund. What would trigger Ass**** to start releasing those funds? Quite possible this has been asked and answered before, but I haven't been able to find a thread - if there is one a link would be appreciated. What do mean by ringfenced funds? There are funds ringfenced within the provision fund to cover expected losses on loans with a predicted capital shortfall. As per the last PF update (31 Oct) there is currently £6.17m ringfenced. The funds would be released to cover a crystallised loss on the loan, at the discretion of the PF directors. No specific trigger other than AC deciding to do it. This has happened to about a dozen loans since the winddown began.
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loadsahope
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Post by loadsahope on Jan 6, 2024 17:34:00 GMT
Thanks for the reply. I was referring specifically to the ring fencing provision for the access accounts where the disretionary part of the process ring fencing of the expected loss amount is supposed to happen immediately and automatically as soon as there are any indications of problems with a loan. I was wondering if there is any indication that the are still managing teh ring-fencing working that way - because if they are it should significantly reduce the risk of (or at least the amount of) capital loss for investors
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 6, 2024 18:38:41 GMT
Thanks for the reply. I was referring specifically to the ring fencing provision for the access accounts where the disretionary part of the process ring fencing of the expected loss amount is supposed to happen immediately and automatically as soon as there are any indications of problems with a loan. I was wondering if there is any indication that the are still managing teh ring-fencing working that way - because if they are it should significantly reduce the risk of (or at least the amount of) capital loss for investors Hard to tell retrospectively & I havent been monitoring it in detail Cumulative £6.28m ringfenced in Oct 22, increased to £6.37m in July, dropped to £6.17m in Oct but that was likely because two defaults repaid in full so the .2m was moved back to the free PF. There have been minimal capital reductions during the winddown period and most new default are still at 100% as they are technical rather than formal ie default rate but loan not called in. Last significant capital reduction was #1226 in April Ill play with some figures later to see what the current predicted capital reduction are in relation to the AA & PF ringfenced coverage Edit forgot #1122 - certainly doesnt seem to have been an increase in PF ringfencing to reflect that Edit 2 - done the numbers and on the basis of the current indicated capital reductions the PF has sufficient funds ringfenced to cover the capital shortfalls (Actually slightly more due to amortisation)
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loadsahope
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Post by loadsahope on Jan 7, 2024 11:52:04 GMT
Thanks so much ilmoro - that is good to hear.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 31, 2024 22:55:39 GMT
As of 31 Dec Capital outstanding £109,737,169 Free Cash £5.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.77m Loans 216 Default 31 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.2m Arrears £9.5m Repaid 8 (£1.7m) Interest received c331k representing approx 90% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Likely to be a shortfall on the interest this month, mainly due to payment phasing & delays due to festive period. As of 31 Jan Capital outstanding £107.1m Free Cash £3.7m Outstanding funding commitments £1.6m (NB AC seem to think it is £2.1m ... havent as yet had chance to locate the 'discrepancy') Loans 211 Default 33 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.4m Arrears £7.97m No Jan payment £7.07m Catch up £8.1 Repaid 4 (£430k) Interest received c505k representing approx 140% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Should be full interest this month but capital returned likely to be low due to lack of repayments.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 1, 2024 0:23:51 GMT
As of 31 Jan Capital outstanding £107.1m Free Cash £3.7m Outstanding funding commitments £1.6m (NB AC seem to think it is £2.1m ... havent as yet had chance to locate the 'discrepancy') Loans 211 Default 33 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.4m Arrears £7.97m No Jan payment £7.07m Catch up £8.1 Repaid 4 (£430k) Interest received c505k representing approx 140% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Should be full interest this month but capital returned likely to be low due to lack of repayments. As of Feb 29 Capital outstanding £105.5m Free Cash £4.2m Outstanding funding commitments £1.6m Loans 205 Default 33 (includes 4 with nominal amounts) - 14.4m Arrears £7.4m No Feb payment £17.3m Catch up £3.5 Repaid 5 (£2m) Interest received c366k representing approx 104% of sum needed to pay 4% before the lender fee. Borderline on interest being paid in full despite short month meaning lot of loan payments not falling due.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 1, 2024 12:48:35 GMT
3.5% ... looks questionable to me.
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Post by Ace on Mar 1, 2024 13:58:00 GMT
3.5% ... looks questionable to me. I got 3.5%.
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