grumpsimus
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Post by grumpsimus on Mar 12, 2024 18:33:24 GMT
I emailed to ablrate@quantuma.com first thing this morning asking why the SoAP had not been published. No answer yet. Has anyone else been in touch with the administrator so far? There is a specific Companies House form (AM04) to file to give notice of the extension of time to deliver administrator's proposals. I haven't seen that form filed for either of the ablrate companies yet. I did exactly the same as you and all I got was an automated response, which referred to the fairly basic FAQs on the FCA website.
I find it rather odd that Quantuma are taking so long. Ablrate was a very small company and its affairs can't be that complicated. The normal pattern in insolvency is a lot of activity at the beginning which tails off as time goes by. A thought that occured to me, is Quantuma is worried if there enough money to cover their fees?
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Post by frederick on Mar 12, 2024 18:54:09 GMT
This is the reply I had from them last week:
Although progress has been made with the banking arrangements, we’re yet to undertake all necessary AML procedures.
Furthermore, following legal advice and review of the orders issued by the Court, we’re advised that it won’t be possible to fulfil withdrawal requests at the present time.
As the Court needs to approve the apportionment of costs and expenses between Trust Assets, it will only be appropriate to distribute Trust Assets to lenders once there is greater visibility as to overall recoveries. This is because the level of recoveries over time will directly impact what portion of the Administrators’ costs and expenses each lender will bear.
It is not possible to estimate at the present time how long this will take.
Finally, since being appointed there has only been one receipt from a borrower. We’re currently undertaking a detailed review of the loan book to ascertain the current position on each loan. Appropriate steps will be taken to collect loans once this work is complete. The Administrators will report on their progress in this respect in due course.
Neil Allen
Manager - Insolvency
Quantuma Advisory Limited
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Mar 12, 2024 20:46:07 GMT
This is the reply I had from them last week: [... etc... ]Thanks for sharing. In essence, I expect that reply will be the biggest takeaway from the Administrators' proposal when it does eventually arrive. With the possibility that it might, in the Administrators' eyes at least, need to be until very late into the process before the overall level of recoveries can be gauged and the likely cost of those recoveries estimated, it seems entirely possible that there will be no returns made to lenders for many, many months. I wonder if Quantuma have noted the situation CG&Co are experiencing over at FS. The earliest recoveries - the low hanging fruit - weren't particularly onerous or costly, but those fruits higher up in the tree are proving harder and costlier to pick. They are also proving less juicy, hence the more recently introduced additional provisions to hold recovery monies back to cover Administrators' costs. If Quantuma make a case for not making disbursements until the loan book is fully wound down, it could be years before lenders see any kind of payments. (Perhaps barring any interest / capital repayments from performing loans, but even then.... ? ? ?)
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grumpsimus
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Post by grumpsimus on Mar 13, 2024 12:14:47 GMT
I agree with grumpsimus that the administration of the two ablrate companies should be straightforward. Not being able to produce a SoAP within 8 weeks therefore points, imo, to the difficulties one would expect Quantuma to have encountered when trying to get to grips with the loan book. Access Commercial Investors 4 plc's administration is the one I hold up as a useful comparator: many of the delinquent ablrate loans are associated with the people that Teneo, as administrator of ACI4 plc, is dealing with. You can read the progress reports for yourself, but the short summary is that if Teneo had set up an Extracting Blood from Stones division at the same time it took on the ACI 4 plc administration, then more stones would have yielded blood, than people of interest to the administrators had responded to enquiries / investigations. When it comes, I expect the section of Quantuma's SoAP that deals with the state of the loanbook to contain lots of "Despite requests, we have not yet had any response from this borrower" That, on top of "the borrower entered administration / voluntary liquidation and the prospect of a dividend is remote" for quite a number of them too. Maybe there is an important role for the Lenders' Committee to play in this whole process: to ensure that Quantuma very quickly appreciates the background of some of the borrowers (at least one is facing a fraud trial); to understand who is connected to who; to raise the issue of some of the more questionable loans (the last AF loan for instance) and settlements ("sold" pubs for instance) and steer Quantuma towards working on the basis that there are borrowers who "could pay, but who are very unwilling to pay" without a lot of direct legal action that brings with it real consequence. The information needed is available in the public domain, mostly from other administrator's reports on ablrate borrowers and connected companies! Without such an approach, it would be very easy to spend a lot of money & time to get pretty much nowhere (Teneo spent a year to get just £4k from over £7m of identified assets). it remains to be seen how far Quantuma might want to go in pursuing the loans. AIUI it has no obligation to do so as part of the administration and its appetite is likely to be lessened if any of its initial recovery efforts come to nothing. Observer,
I agree with much of what you say and I think the heart of this problen is that Insolvency Law hasn't kept up with P2P lending. The administration of the companies themselves follows a well trodden path, that I am sure that Quantuma have done many times before. The bulk of the work and costs is the recovery of the loans, which are not owned by Ablrate which has no money to pay for this work. The only place this money can come from is lenders who make a recovery from those loans. It appears Quantuma are beginning to realise this.
When DBW put Ablrate into administration he consulted the FCA, as Albrate was a regulated company. I suspect that the FCA may well have suggested Quantuma as suitable administrators and they will not wish to upset the FCA. It is possible to imagine a scenario where an admistrator comes in, sees the company is completely insolvent, flogs off the loan book to debt collectors, this would raise very little, closes the company down and hopes there is enough money to cover their fees.
Quantuma may establish a Creditors Committee, but these tend to talking shops and have no power, which remains firmly in the hands of the Administrator. Certainly it would sensible to provide them with information about the borrowers and the best prospects for any recoveries. The Administrators could spend a lot of time and money (our money) pursuing hopeless cases. It would be far better for the real dead ducks to be written off at an early stage.
In the meantime I don't think that Quantuma can indefinately put off issuing their Proposals for dealing with the administration. It doesn't have to cover everything in detail, just the general approach and a statement that some areas are subject furthe enquiry. It appears they haven't even applied for an extension of time for the issue of their Proposals.
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duck
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Post by duck on Mar 13, 2024 13:50:07 GMT
...... The administration of the companies themselves follows a well trodden path, that I am sure that Quantuma have done many times before. ....
Perhaps hints of how this will go can be gained from the administration of 'The House Crowd' (P2P) which the FCA show as being dealt with by Quantuma. I note Quantuma have a web page following the FCA's 'reminder' about the importance of wind down plans ........... but we all know from past experience that these have proved worthless.
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Mar 14, 2024 8:20:19 GMT
It doesn't look like the Administrators have actually done anything except spend money. The document does not even mention individual loans, let alone their status. It seems to be just the standard pro forma with a paragraph or two very expensively added in. Oh dear.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 14, 2024 8:24:24 GMT
It doesn't look like the Administrators have actually done anything except spend money. The document does not even mention individual loans, let alone their status. It seems to be just the standard pro forma with a paragraph or two very expensively added in. Oh dear. It wont ... this is the security trustee ... the AT & C proposals should have the detail as thats the vehicle that primarily deals with lenders. That was due yesterday so should appear imminently
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Mar 14, 2024 11:51:28 GMT
The Statement of administrator's proposal is a waste as far as we lenders are concerned, because it mainly details how much money Quantuma will loot take from us. Quantuma probably charged £10,000 for creating that document alone.
I've always said the wind-down plans for P2P platforms are not worth the paper they are not written on. If these wind-down plans, put together carefully in partnership with the FCA, are as brilliant as the staff of these P2P platforms and the FCA keep insisting, a business like Ablrate should have had at least £2 million set aside to cover administration fees etc.
However, the wind-down plans that I've seen for a few P2P platforms are on a par with what a GCSE student would put together. They are merely a tick-box exercise and a facade to con P2P lenders into believing everything will be magnificently managed and they will get all their money back in case administration comes about.
We will see that is far from the case when Quantuma show their teeth over the next six or seven years. I've been a victim of their administrations a few times before and never ever got a single penny back. Quantuma have billed millions of pounds in every single administration and they and their partner companies take everything.
How much money did Ablrate set aside to cover their administrators' fees should they go into administration?
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grumpsimus
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Post by grumpsimus on Mar 14, 2024 12:21:34 GMT
Having read the Administrator's Proposals for Ablrate Assets we know very little more than we did before.
Did anyone notice it was dated 5th March, where has it been hiding? The Proposals are in a very standard form, basically the only financial asset is a debt of £32,400 owed by Aviation and Tech Capital - well good luck with getting that! Otherwise it is all about costs, did anyone else notice that the Solicitors expect to get over half million pounds on these two administrations. A good question to ask is why is so much money being spent on winding up Ablrate Assets, which will have absolutely no benefit to Lenders who will have to pay for it?
It is odd that these Proposals only appear to be published on the Companies House website, normally administrators use something like IPS in order to allow creditors to see documents.
However, the important Proposals are those for Aviation and Tech Capital, how much longer before we see these?
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Post by peertopier on Mar 14, 2024 14:48:42 GMT
DBW seems to be running ASMX. Sounds great. "Exlayr is the ASMX Group technology and regulatory stack that transforms how companies list and raise capital by linking stock exchanges with blockchain technology. It offers a cost-effective solution for businesses to access funding and for investors to invest in growth companies." "Registered digital assets trading on a regulated stock exchange under existing securities laws." asmx.group/exchange-member/
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grumpsimus
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Post by grumpsimus on Mar 14, 2024 16:10:54 GMT
I have tried to reach the person named in the ablrate assets Ltd Statement of Administrator's Proposals to ask when that for Aviation and Tech Capital Ltd will be filed at Companies House (or elsewhere). ablrate@quantuma.com neil.allen@quantuma.com telephone 02382 357956 Has anyone received a response to their similar enquiries? No, they are certainly taking their time.
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grumpsimus
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Post by grumpsimus on Mar 15, 2024 22:54:29 GMT
I have had a quick at the Administrators proposals for Aviation and Tech Capital Ltd and it is clearly as bad as most of us expected. The deficency is roughly £1.2 Million and unsecured creditors are unlikely to get any thing. The administrators costs are horrendous and they expect take these from recoveries from the loan book.
The outstanding loan book is £21.5 million and the company holds cash of £0.55 million on trust for lenders. The real question is that nobody really has a clue about the likely recovery rate. as lenders we don't have an overview of the whole loanbook, only our own loans. The administrators talk about going through each loan, which will of course involve furthe costs, paid by lenders.
Just looking at my own small loan book I can see little real chance of much recovery, far too many dodgy borrowers who are well practiced in not paying back their loans.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Mar 16, 2024 0:03:55 GMT
The Statement of Administrator's Proposals for Aviation and Tech Capital Ltd is available to download from the documents section of some of the existing loans in your ablrate.co.uk account View AttachmentIs this the long-awaited document from Quantuma in terms of the loan book etc. we've been waiting for? Could you please explain where we can find it? What is the document called? I've looked in a few loans I've lent to, in the Documents tab, and can't find any document with the title "Statement", "Administrator", "Quantuma" or any date in March 2024 etc. etc. All I see is the Quantuma Letter, FAQ etc. we were provided previously. I don't understand why the Ablrate email list wasn't used to simply email lenders the document...
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Mar 16, 2024 8:37:00 GMT
Well, I've finally found it - the Companies House website offers the easiest access - the jumbled mess of the Ablrate website doesn't help.
A few points.
The Administrators are looking for £1m + from the administration; they already have £500,000 + available (from the recently repaid loan, I guess);
the Berkley Applegate Court Order* can now be said to have been served in accordance with it (assuming the AM03 does in fact appear on the Ablrate website) so those wishing to can object to it within 14 days;
the document contains no detail whatsoever about individual loans - there isn't even a list.
This is all very familiar Administrator practice and as usual it's costing lenders hugely for not very much to date.
* the original Order published on the website wasn't that - it was the draft Order with all the crucial detail omitted.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 16, 2024 11:44:01 GMT
Admin seems to be being somewhat questionable in their dealings with lenders ... bare minimal to comply with Insolvency Law.
No attempt to specifically notify them in relation to BA application or the proposals both which need/ed potential action to protect interests ...
Failing to recognise lenders as creditors in the proposals despite clear precedent from other admin that they are likely to be (including the Lendy Court order) thereby attempting to avoid a CC and the scrutiny of fees that entails. Lender committee proposed likely to have no statutory power. This is also contrary to FCA guidance for insolvency of regulated companies which suggests all stakeholders incl clients should be involved.
I would suggest that lenders need to consider whether they need to file a POD (for full loans, interest on the basis of Abl liabilities for their failings) to seek to object to this element of the proposals ... would also need volunteers to be on a CC. Very short timescales
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