angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 21, 2024 11:31:11 GMT
Totally agree there is no way I would go anywhere near P2P today, especially since you can earn 5-6% in the bank. We might be heading into a very nasty long recession. I do agree and the issue is even P2P investments paying 8% is it worth the risk from 5.5 % in bank to 8% with no creditable protection against platform failure. Unless 100ks of thousands invested it's hardly worth the extra risk to your capital but then again would people invest 100ks in P2P ? Most investors sing the praises of diversified P2P portfolio includimg myself but this strategy lowers returns at the price of increased safety which even that is debatable.. If an investor had 100% P2P in Loanpad 6.5% then spread 5 P2P to TRY and lessen over risks then 1 P2P goes into administration you have lost this 20% of original investment perhaps get half back if your lucky still 10% down original investment. If 5 P2P were paying 10 /12 % then you could argue worth the risks problem is ones that are are riskier, exactly why they pay such high rates. Good luck finding more than 5 decent P2P that at the lower risk end. Crowdproperty paying 10% but lots developments now very late. I don't think all in this 1 P2P would be a good idea either. I continue to run down my P2P portfolio as payments come in. There are some decent ones but it can change in a heartbeat sadly. At my peak investment in around 2015 I had well into 6 figures invested into P2P (which was modest compared to the 7 figure investments some people on this forum had in P2P) - which was way too much relative to my personal wealth. I was always hopping to the latest and greatest platform to reduce platform failure and liquidity risk. I was very fortunate to get most of it out in early 2017 or I would have lost ££££'s - which in part is due to the information I got from this forum.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 21, 2024 14:25:21 GMT
Still pretty happy with my P2P investments I was in at the start of Zopa (2005?) and still investing in a few platforms now. It has been much better for me than S&S.
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duck
Member of DD Central
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Post by duck on Feb 21, 2024 15:56:36 GMT
Just heard about the Ratesetter fiasco, glad I took my money out in 2017 or 2018 (can't remember exactly when). Its been a dead game for years.
What Ratesetter fiasco ? They closed their book in the UK 3 years ago returning all lenders' money.
I got out in 2017 but there are a lot of dissatisfied people 'out there'. RS appear to have been selling loans through regulated solicitors without having the necessary FCA permissions. a sample of the messages I have been sent and
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Post by overthehill on Feb 21, 2024 17:07:51 GMT
What Ratesetter fiasco ? They closed their book in the UK 3 years ago returning all lenders' money.
I got out in 2017 but there are a lot of dissatisfied people 'out there'. RS appear to have been selling loans through regulated solicitors without having the necessary FCA permissions. a sample of the messages I have been sent and
What were the problems with the ratesetter mortages ?
This forum is primarily about P2P lending where money is at risk of not being repaid, you can't lose money that you've borrowed. From a lender's POV Ratesetter did little wrong.
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toffeeboy
Member of DD Central
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 21, 2024 17:21:15 GMT
I got out in 2017 but there are a lot of dissatisfied people 'out there'. RS appear to have been selling loans through regulated solicitors without having the necessary FCA permissions. a sample of the messages I have been sent and
What were the problems with the ratesetter mortages ?
This forum is primarily about P2P lending where money is at risk of not being repaid, you can't lose money that you've borrowed. From a lender's POV Ratesetter did little wrong.
The site is primarily P2P lending but it is a P2P forum so I assume includes the borrowing side as well although since Zopa went I don't think there are many on here that borrow via P2P sites. There are a few new posts in the defunct ratesetter folder by ratesetterzombie who appears to be a disgruntled borrower
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firedog
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Post by firedog on Feb 21, 2024 19:02:28 GMT
Still pretty happy with my P2P investments I was in at the start of Zopa (2005?) and still investing in a few platforms now. It has been much better for me than S&S. Me too - only my fifth year now in P2P and currently happily in Qardus, Kuflink, Unbolted, CapitalRise, Assetz Exchange, AxiaFunder, CrowdProperty, Loanpad, CapitalStackers, Proplend and LandlordInvest. Enjoyed the investments and the returns. No sleepless nights (yet) and a steadier performer than shares. Of course, everyone will have their own experience to draw on.
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
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Post by michaelc on Feb 21, 2024 19:15:45 GMT
Agree with your sentiments willsmithgrrrr . Diversification is always wise, but does not solve the key problem. The key issue with P2P versus more stable forms of investing such as the stockmarket is that when a P2P platform goes down, you are likely to lose all or most of your money.
By contrast, I doubt most people have sleepless nights that they are going to lose everything they have by buying shares via Hargreaves Lansdown or Barclays. This in spades!
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duck
Member of DD Central
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Post by duck on Feb 22, 2024 6:04:49 GMT
I got out in 2017 but there are a lot of dissatisfied people 'out there'. RS appear to have been selling loans through regulated solicitors without having the necessary FCA permissions. a sample of the messages I have been sent and
What were the problems with the ratesetter mortages ?
This forum is primarily about P2P lending where money is at risk of not being repaid, you can't lose money that you've borrowed. From a lender's POV Ratesetter did little wrong.
It appears that RS didn't have permissions to sell mortgages simple as that. Any relevant permissions at that time would have been shown on the Interim Permissions register ........... but of course the FCA removed that some time ago and are very reluctant to disclose what was on it to a group of RS 'borrowers'. At the time RS were saying they were not involved in the mortgage market .... The borrowers were led to believe they were taking out regular loans but in fact these were packaged up and bundled into RS mortgages. Horrible mess with Novitas, solicitors, RS and the FCA involved.
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benaj
Member of DD Central
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Post by benaj on Feb 22, 2024 9:00:53 GMT
Still pretty happy with my P2P investments I was in at the start of Zopa (2005?) and still investing in a few platforms now. It has been much better for me than S&S. 😅 I am just wandering what’s your secret avoiding bad apples? Willing to share some? If I didn’t know this platform exist, I might have some bad debts and recovery and still made some decent profits with the UK P2P big boys. Why such a number of failed platforms were here on this forum in the first place?
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Post by overthehill on Feb 22, 2024 10:12:30 GMT
Still pretty happy with my P2P investments I was in at the start of Zopa (2005?) and still investing in a few platforms now. It has been much better for me than S&S. 😅 I am just wandering what’s your secret avoiding bad apples? Willing to share some? If I didn’t know this platform exist, I might have some bad debts and recovery and still made some decent profits with the UK P2P big boys. Why such a number of failed platforms were here on this forum in the first place?
It was the early days, the same thing happens over and again. New financial products especially are prime targets for exploitation as investors are attracted by the marketing but have no experience or knowledge as that requires time to pass.
I think this forum probably saved a lot of people money at the expense of the fraudsters even it was only damage limitation in some cases.
I'm not expecting any bad apples in this basket ! Unbolted, Proplend, Capitalrise, Crowdproperty, Kuflink, Landlordinvest, Axiafunder, Somo.
One method of trying to avoid bad apples is to pick your mentor and copy like I've seen on share platforms, your portfolio basically mirrors anything another top investor does.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 22, 2024 11:39:52 GMT
Still pretty happy with my P2P investments I was in at the start of Zopa (2005?) and still investing in a few platforms now. It has been much better for me than S&S. 😅 I am just wandering what’s your secret avoiding bad apples? Willing to share some? If I didn’t know this platform exist, I might have some bad debts and recovery and still made some decent profits with the UK P2P big boys. Why such a number of failed platforms were here on this forum in the first place? Many of the 'early adopters of P2P' were on here and more so when the Zopa forum closed. Then when people started investing or were thinking of investing in other new platforms they posted to ask about them or give their experience, still the same really, so the failed and the good platforms are pretty much all on here. I was probably a bit lucky and a bit sceptical, I went with Zopa to the end and RS until the last changes to the platform. Went off Funding circle and got out, don't remember why. I thought the way people were buying way overdue loans on SS (Lendy) was mad, so pretty much sold out. I didn't understand the enthusiasm for a lot of Col loans dipped a toe only. Assetz was just too complicated I didn't understand it so didn't really invest. Got burnt on TC, didn't like it going corporate and should have got out then, slight profit overall so could have been worse, we live and learn.
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Post by Ace on Feb 22, 2024 14:41:56 GMT
On 15 Dec 21, the BoE base rate was 0.1% Between then and 3 Aug 23, the base rate increased 52.5x and has stayed at that level ever since. Risk free savings accounts are available broadly in line with the base rate. In the same period, the interest rate offered on P2P lending has pretty much stayed flat. A number of significant platforms have failed and a number of significant borrowers are delinquent, or have failed too. By any objective measure, the risk to reward ratio has deteriorated for P2P lending. Cases can still be made that there is a place for some exposure to P2P lending in a well balanced portfolio, but the proportion of an overall portfolio that gets allocated to P2P lending must surely be less from 3 Aug 23 than it was on 15 Dec 21. Whilst I agree with almost all of this post, I haven't implemented its conclusion. I.e. I haven't reduced my exposure to P2P. So, the post has got me thinking about why. Firstly, the only point where my experience differs is that the vast majority of my platforms have significantly increased their rates over that time. One reason that I haven't reduced by exposure is undoubtedly laziness. Disinvesting from P2P and constantly moving funds around various FSCS protected accounts in order to deploy all of the funds and maintain the best rate feels like a lot of hassle. I'm taking a longer term (and hence lazier) view that the premium for the extra risk will widen again as base rates drop, which I assume will be quite soon. In fact the 5 year FSCS rates have already fallen to around 4.5%. The average BoE base rate over the period mentioned has been around 3.25%. I'm happy that the rates I've received from my chosen platforms over that time is worth the differential.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Feb 22, 2024 21:48:05 GMT
The problem with risk arises when you don't know that you are at risk. Then the only way you find out is when things go bad. We have all been at risk, physically or financial, without knowing it but the worst never happened so we never found out. Most people who lost money in p2p did not realise the extent of the risk. Most of the failed platforms offered loans against property independently valued by professional valuers and loans were not more than 70% of valuation.
My advice to anyone considering a non-FSCS investment is to assume that there is a degree of unknown risk to set against the rate premium versus FSCS - otherwise why would there be a premium?
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Post by willsmithgrrrr on Feb 22, 2024 23:12:06 GMT
The problem with risk arises when you don't know that you are at risk. Then the only way you find out is when things go bad. We have all been at risk, physically or financial, without knowing it but the worst never happened so we never found out. Most people who lost money in p2p did not realise the extent of the risk. Most of the failed platforms offered loans against property independently valued by professional valuers and loans were not more than 70% of valuation. My advice to anyone considering a non-FSCS investment is to assume that there is a degree of unknown risk to set against the rate premium versus FSCS - otherwise why would there be a premium? Good points,l would question if the increased rate on P2P especially a basket of P2P lower ris is worth the extra risk to your capital
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Post by willsmithgrrrr on Feb 22, 2024 23:14:31 GMT
The problem with risk arises when you don't know that you are at risk. Then the only way you find out is when things go bad. We have all been at risk, physically or financial, without knowing it but the worst never happened so we never found out. Most people who lost money in p2p did not realise the extent of the risk. Most of the failed platforms offered loans against property independently valued by professional valuers and loans were not more than 70% of valuation. My advice to anyone considering a non-FSCS investment is to assume that there is a degree of unknown risk to set against the rate premium versus FSCS - otherwise why would there be a premium? Good points,l would question if the increased rate on P2P especially a basket of P2P now supposed lower risks is worth the extra overall risk to your capital. My appetite for P2P just seems to be getting less and less. The risk premium is nowhere near enough currently
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