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Post by bracknellboy on May 31, 2024 12:06:16 GMT
I would say it is more significant than either. Most people who are capable of thinking for themselves will see this as the end of the US as a democracy if it means Trump cannot become President or is put in prison. Although, some people would say it already ceased to be a democracy when JFK had his head blown off. oh, I can see the disappointment on your face. Trump should not be a president at any and every cost. puttler's asset did not worked out the way they want it although it caused to0 much damage anyway, unfortunately. I'm not sure that this is going to stop Trump being re-elected though, unfortunately. He also shouldn't be stopped at any and every cost. Only legitimate, legal and compatible with the democratic institutions and rule of law. I agree that all effort and all means compatible with that should be used, because of the long term threat he poses to democracy. But that is a different point. I notice that Putler has already said that Trump's conviction was a political act. If I believed a single thing that came out of his mouth I might lend it some credence: after all, if anyone should be able to spot a politically motivated trial and conviction, Putler should be able to.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Trump
May 31, 2024 12:32:47 GMT
Post by ilmoro on May 31, 2024 12:32:47 GMT
I would say it is more significant than either. Most people who are capable of thinking for themselves will see this as the end of the US as a democracy and its descent into a militaristic despotism if it means Trump cannot become President or is put in prison. Although, some people would say it ceased to be a democracy when JFK had his head blown off. Well he can become President as there is no bar on a convict being President Prison is unlikely, just for practical reasons, very hard to protect and somewhat unfair on the secret service agents who get jail time with him. Also unlikely pre-election anyway as likely to be an appeal and then an appeal of the appeal and given the low level nature of the crimes unlikely to be jailed before them. I can see that the conduct of the trial in relation to the prosecution using arguments relating to federal offences in their case with which he wasnt charged to up the severity is likely to need further examination at least. Biggest question is how it swings the vote in November ... victim or convict narrative
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michaelc
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Trump
May 31, 2024 13:46:41 GMT
Post by michaelc on May 31, 2024 13:46:41 GMT
oh, I can see the disappointment on your face. Trump should not be a president at any and every cost. puttler's asset did not worked out the way they want it although it caused to0 much damage anyway, unfortunately. I'm not sure that this is going to stop Trump being re-elected though, unfortunately. He also shouldn't be stopped at any and every cost. Only legitimate, legal and compatible with the democratic institutions and rule of law. I agree that all effort and all means compatible with that should be used, because of the long term threat he poses to democracy. But that is a different point. I notice that Putler has already said that Trump's conviction was a political act. If I believed a single thing that came out of his mouth I might lend it some credence: after all, if anyone should be able to spot a politically motivated trial and conviction, Putler should be able to. k6 is great to have around as he reminds us how dangerous things can become under mob rule. Yes I largely agree with you BB. Democracy - everyone's right to have an equal say must always prevail and is always more important than the issue, the party or the person.
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k6
Posts: 248
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Trump
May 31, 2024 13:56:40 GMT
Post by k6 on May 31, 2024 13:56:40 GMT
I'm not sure that this is going to stop Trump being re-elected though, unfortunately. He also shouldn't be stopped at any and every cost. Only legitimate, legal and compatible with the democratic institutions and rule of law. I agree that all effort and all means compatible with that should be used, because of the long term threat he poses to democracy. But that is a different point. I notice that Putler has already said that Trump's conviction was a political act. If I believed a single thing that came out of his mouth I might lend it some credence: after all, if anyone should be able to spot a politically motivated trial and conviction, Putler should be able to. k6 is great to have around as he reminds us how dangerous things can become under mob rule. Yes I largely agree with you BB. Democracy - everyone's right to have an equal say must always prevail and is always more important than the issue, the party or the person. beautiful . . . was waiting for your or the Angry one reply. Don't care how much current US government is corrupt or is not . Someone like Trump has no place in society let alone be someone that runs it . Hopefully 'they' strip him from any hope of becoming . . . well, word President hardly can squeeze through my throat.
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james100
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Post by james100 on May 31, 2024 14:34:04 GMT
The idea that all votes are equal (often implied by 'democracy') relies on commonly understood fact base. Trump reminds me of the guy in this pic:
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 31, 2024 15:08:43 GMT
I'm listening to his speech live right now. The guy is completely barking.
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rscal
Posts: 985
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Trump
May 31, 2024 15:39:07 GMT
Post by rscal on May 31, 2024 15:39:07 GMT
I would say it is more significant than either. Most people who are capable of thinking for themselves will see this as the end of the US as a democracy if it means Trump cannot become President or is put in prison. Although, some people would say it already ceased to be a democracy when JFK had his head blown off. oh, I can see the disappointment on your face. Trump should not be a president at any and every cost. puttler's asset did not worked out the way they want it although it caused to0 much damage anyway, unfortunately. Oh, you're going with that are you? 'Putler' That would be a five times winner with 87 percent support - yes I can see how the theory of his influence works. Trump only makes people want to support him and people mentally deranged equal numbers but Putin can just cakewalk it. OF COURSE he threw the 2016 election!
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Trump
May 31, 2024 23:53:25 GMT
Post by ilmoro on May 31, 2024 23:53:25 GMT
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adrianc
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Trump
Jun 1, 2024 7:00:31 GMT
Post by adrianc on Jun 1, 2024 7:00:31 GMT
oh, I can see the disappointment on your face. Trump should not be a president at any and every cost. puttler's asset did not worked out the way they want it although it caused to0 much damage anyway, unfortunately. Oh, you're going with that are you? 'Putler' That would be a five times winner with 87 percent support - yes I can see how the theory of his influence works. Trump only makes people want to support him and people mentally deranged equal numbers but Putin can just cakewalk it. OF COURSE he threw the 2016 election! Because, of course, those elections were all free, fair and open, with a free and fair press available to all...
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adrianc
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Trump
Jun 1, 2024 7:03:37 GMT
Post by adrianc on Jun 1, 2024 7:03:37 GMT
All betting tells you is where the money's going. That's not the same as where the votes might go. Trump IS still ahead, but only *just*, 41.0% to 39.7% with 9.8% for Kennedy. The conviction was never going to change anything, simply because there is nobody undecided in the US. projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
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adrianc
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Trump
Jun 1, 2024 7:07:17 GMT
Post by adrianc on Jun 1, 2024 7:07:17 GMT
In fact is there a correlation between those who essentially insisted the 2016 UK referendum should be anulled and those in the UK who hate Trump? That bit's one for another thread... But I'd suggest the correlation is the other way round. Those who *still* think Brexit a good idea are the ones who support Trump. Nobody wanted the referendum annulled. It was only ever legally advisory in the first place. Gina Miller's court case was about getting parliament to approve any deal - which, thanks to her, is what happened. As for a second referendum for the population to approve any deal... Remember whose idea it was?
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rscal
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Trump
Jun 1, 2024 7:56:09 GMT
Post by rscal on Jun 1, 2024 7:56:09 GMT
Oh, you're going with that are you? 'Putler' That would be a five times winner with 87 percent support - yes I can see how the theory of his influence works. Trump only makes people want to support him and people mentally deranged equal numbers but Putin can just cakewalk it. OF COURSE he threw the 2016 election! Because, of course, those elections were all free, fair and open, with a free and fair press available to all... 76,277,708
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angrysaveruk
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Back and to the left..
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 1, 2024 8:15:56 GMT
It has obviously damaged his chances since some people will not vote for a convicted felon - which is the whole point of this lawfare against him. It has nothing to do with the fact he might have broken the law with some dodgy accounting, it is the use of the Law to damage a political opponent by the current administration - which should worry all Americans even if they dont like Trump.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 1, 2024 8:52:40 GMT
If you want to see an administration use the law to damage opponents just wait for Trump to win in November. EDIT: I should add state DA, state charges. Not Federal. No DoJ involvement in pressing charges. No Garland involvement in pressing charges. No Biden involvement in pressing charges. But yes, I grant you that the DA in question was a registered Democrat. Care to explain Judge Cannon? EDIT2: www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-charges-conviction-guilty-verdict/
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jun 1, 2024 9:20:10 GMT
Oh, you're going with that are you? 'Putler' That would be a five times winner with 87 percent support - yes I can see how the theory of his influence works. Trump only makes people want to support him and people mentally deranged equal numbers but Putin can just cakewalk it. OF COURSE he threw the 2016 election! Because, of course, those elections were all free, fair and open, with a free and fair press available to all... And where his opponents are dead, exiled or imprisoned, and the constitution was changed to allow him to stand more than twice. Personally I'd trust Russian elections, about as much as I'd trust those in Zimbabwe under Mugabe, or FIFA elections. Of course Somoza in Nicaragua once said "you may have won the election but I won the count" heard an "expert" from on of UK universities on BBC yesterday talking about this and he was saying what a fair and free judiciary America has, and I was thinking where most judges are political appointments, no chance of it being free or fair
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