adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 27, 2024 9:10:56 GMT
Quite One can't help be left seriously wondering whether the last 2 or 3 posts from the "we're all being oppressed, its a giant global elite conspiracy" are in fact deliberate parody posts. What is it you disagree with about my statements regarding a huge uptick in political prisoners in the UK? So much so that there aren't enough places in the prison system to house them. Umm, are you thinking of the increase in early release? Perhaps you've forgotten that overcrowding is a problem inherited from the last government? And, if you're suggesting the Southport rioters are "political prisoners"... Let's look at some of the misleading reports. Jailed for saying "who the f'k is Alan?" - no. Jailed for threatening police and leading a violent mob. Jailed for saying "You're not English any more" - no. Jailed for instigating a fight with police while on licence from a 20-year cocaine smuggling sentence. Oh, and - of course - the only people sentenced so far pleaded guilty. Nobody's actually had a trial. Amnesty International have Assange down as the only "prisoner of conscience" in the UK in recent years. And, frankly, I trust them more than I do apologists for racially- and religiously-motivated violence and looting.
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 9:33:02 GMT
Post by overthehill on Aug 27, 2024 9:33:02 GMT
What is it you disagree with about my statements regarding a huge uptick in political prisoners in the UK? So much so that there aren't enough places in the prison system to house them. Edit: And yes as someone said "don't post when drunk" rings very true right now. I'm having to be incredibly careful what I say despite the fact that only 5 people will ever read what I write. I am definitely afraid of being persecuted for my views as they are not mainstream and definitely not of the Starmer brand. Starmer's spies re everywhere. From now on for the safety of my family I will only post on this forum encrypted. @#$4rf@$£. 4dg#4&4? Sr@1 z###_ . Ddddwfnj@#)&3#dehf3£(f.
Labour will make a complete 7&*&^TVR$&*)(HGR$$%^YHGRR$^%£!!RTYLLLL of it.
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michaelc
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 12:31:44 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 27, 2024 12:31:44 GMT
What is it you disagree with about my statements regarding a huge uptick in political prisoners in the UK? So much so that there aren't enough places in the prison system to house them. Umm, are you thinking of the increase in early release? Perhaps you've forgotten that overcrowding is a problem inherited from the last government? And, if you're suggesting the Southport rioters are "political prisoners"... Let's look at some of the misleading reports. Jailed for saying "who the f'k is Alan?" - no. Jailed for threatening police and leading a violent mob. Jailed for saying "You're not English any more" - no. Jailed for instigating a fight with police while on licence from a 20-year cocaine smuggling sentence. Oh, and - of course - the only people sentenced so far pleaded guilty. Nobody's actually had a trial. Amnesty International have Assange down as the only "prisoner of conscience" in the UK in recent years. And, frankly, I trust them more than I do apologists for racially- and religiously-motivated violence and looting. You're confusing the terms "prisoner of conscience" and "political prisoner". The latter definition might be something like "imprisoned for their political activities, especially, for criticising their country’s political authorities or advocating for change of power." I suggest that is a lower bar than "prisoner of conscience". There is always a fine line between a demonstrator and a violent thug. The fact that so many were sentenced entirely for deterrent purposes suggests the judges and country got it wrong particularly for those that did not themselves act violently. I like Amnesty as an organisation even though I suspect it is more likely to protect left wing political prisoners then those on the right.
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adrianc
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 15:04:16 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 27, 2024 15:04:16 GMT
Umm, are you thinking of the increase in early release? Perhaps you've forgotten that overcrowding is a problem inherited from the last government? And, if you're suggesting the Southport rioters are "political prisoners"... Let's look at some of the misleading reports. Jailed for saying "who the f'k is Alan?" - no. Jailed for threatening police and leading a violent mob. Jailed for saying "You're not English any more" - no. Jailed for instigating a fight with police while on licence from a 20-year cocaine smuggling sentence. Oh, and - of course - the only people sentenced so far pleaded guilty. Nobody's actually had a trial. Amnesty International have Assange down as the only "prisoner of conscience" in the UK in recent years. And, frankly, I trust them more than I do apologists for racially- and religiously-motivated violence and looting. You're confusing the terms "prisoner of conscience" and "political prisoner". The latter definition might be something like "imprisoned for their political activities, especially, for criticising their country’s political authorities or advocating for change of power." I suggest that is a lower bar than "prisoner of conscience". There is always a fine line between a demonstrator and a violent thug. The fact that so many were sentenced entirely for deterrent purposes suggests the judges and country got it wrong particularly for those that did not themselves act violently. I like Amnesty as an organisation even though I suspect it is more likely to protect left wing political prisoners then those on the right. We can argue the semantics of the two terms. However, it is undeniable that those sentenced for the riots are in prison because of their actions, not because of their words.
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benaj
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 15:11:23 GMT
Post by benaj on Aug 27, 2024 15:11:23 GMT
Meanwhile, Trump got beaten.
"Wilson beats Trump to win Xi'an Grand Prix final"
I certainly think this is the approiate place to share this news.
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michaelc
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 15:32:31 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 27, 2024 15:32:31 GMT
You're confusing the terms "prisoner of conscience" and "political prisoner". The latter definition might be something like "imprisoned for their political activities, especially, for criticising their country’s political authorities or advocating for change of power." I suggest that is a lower bar than "prisoner of conscience". There is always a fine line between a demonstrator and a violent thug. The fact that so many were sentenced entirely for deterrent purposes suggests the judges and country got it wrong particularly for those that did not themselves act violently. I like Amnesty as an organisation even though I suspect it is more likely to protect left wing political prisoners then those on the right. We can argue the semantics of the two terms. However, it is undeniable that those sentenced for the riots are in prison because of their actions, not because of their words. No it isn't. They hold views which are detested by the establishment and they are being persecuted because of them. Many of those given long sentences did nothing other than write words in the local Facebook group or similar. I do agree that there should be limits on free speech and I do agree ignorance of the law is no excuse, but there should have been SOME attempt by the government to make it very clear to people that if they post something inflamatory, racist or otherwise against the law they should expect a heavy sentence. Those sentenced that did not physically harm anyone or anything likely had no idea at all about the sentence they would face. It would seem just being present at the protest when others around were conducting riotous acts was enough to be sent down. There is quite a lot of international press now wondering whether the UK has gone beyond what a free and fair society should expect with regard to its freedom of speech and freedom of the press laws. Even the organisation you brought up yourself recently, has concerns about it as far back as 2019. www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/campaigns-blog/uk-could-soon-have-prisoners-conscience
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 27, 2024 15:38:11 GMT
We can argue the semantics of the two terms. However, it is undeniable that those sentenced for the riots are in prison because of their actions, not because of their words. No it isn't. They hold views which are detested by the establishment and they are being persecuted because of them. Many of those given long sentences did nothing other than write words in the local Facebook group or similar. Fine upstanding citizens such as...? www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6x105wgz5owww.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy76dxkpjpjowww.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3gre3y9yowww.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c703e03w243oAre these the kind of people you think are being "persecuted" because of perfectly valid views that simply don't fit "the establishment"? The laws against inciting racial hatred and making death threats aren't exactly new. Such as... " ARTICLE 10 Freedom of expression1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises. 2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary"www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/convention_ENG(as, of course, has applied to the UK since 1953)
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benaj
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 16:29:53 GMT
Post by benaj on Aug 27, 2024 16:29:53 GMT
Well, we plebs do not have the luxury to buy "justice" like Trump or Lynch. Pretty sure there are a number of of people have been "jailed" for a crime they never committed, still awaiting "proper" compensation from miscarriage of the current justice system.
So, what about the human rights for those people? Did they have fair trial? Any human rights for fair compensation?
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 27, 2024 17:35:55 GMT
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benaj
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 18:00:09 GMT
Post by benaj on Aug 27, 2024 18:00:09 GMT
Best hope, they get parole and released early. It not the worst, considering they didn't get maximum of 10 years in prison. The crime doesn't fit the punishment in my opinion, but I am no legal expert.
DJT is such a lucky b**t***, must have rolled double six in the monopoly game and got out early.
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angrysaveruk
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Back and to the left..
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Trump
Aug 27, 2024 18:04:41 GMT
Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 27, 2024 18:04:41 GMT
The ruling elite will arrest anyone who they see as a threat to their power - left and right it doesnt matter. I would say some of the most disturbing arrests that have been made recently have been of left wing activists such as Journalist Richard Medhurst being arrested under the terrorism act. That is why I think there will be a unification of the popularist left and right against the globalist ruling class in a number of countries (such as Trump and RFK).
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 27, 2024 18:33:48 GMT
Hmmm.... Well if this was a genuine plot and they fully intended to follow through with it then surely anyone would agree that is not about free speech. On the other hand, if the racist woman was clearly blinded by OTT rage but genuinely wasn't plotting to kill anyone in a hotel or genuinely wishing and persuading others to do it surely you would agree the two are completely different. Don't know for sure as don't know all the ins and outs of the cases but thats what strikes me. I'd be the last person to want the law to be applied differently according to the demographic of the person accused.
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benaj
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Trump
Aug 28, 2024 8:02:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by benaj on Aug 28, 2024 8:02:06 GMT
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warn
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Post by warn on Aug 28, 2024 8:11:00 GMT
"Let them eat burgers".
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adrianc
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Trump
Aug 28, 2024 8:40:25 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 28, 2024 8:40:25 GMT
Hmmm.... Well if this was a genuine plot and they fully intended to follow through with it then surely anyone would agree that is not about free speech. On the other hand, if the racist woman was clearly blinded by OTT rage but genuinely wasn't plotting to kill anyone in a hotel or genuinely wishing and persuading others to do it surely you would agree the two are completely different. So it's OK to send death threats, so long as you don't actually mean them? Will a pre-emptive disclaimer cover it? Must do, why else would just about every KGBeebies presenter simultaneously tweet...
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