ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 10, 2024 12:43:58 GMT
Only a small investment and I generally just transfer money over when there is a loan I want coming up ... got caught out because a loan didnt progress so had funds available and by fluke the next loan was one Im in. They didnt acknowledge they had changed it ... only noticed when I wrote a lengthy rebuttal of their arguments and double checked the wording on the site. Would you be comfortable sharing the rebuttal on here? Unfortunately, deleted it when realised it wasnt relevant ... basically arguing I didnt think it met financial promotion rules/COBS, clear & not misleading etc.
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Apr 10, 2024 13:13:04 GMT
Would you be comfortable sharing the rebuttal on here? Unfortunately, deleted it when realised it wasnt relevant ... basically arguing I didnt think it met financial promotion rules/COBS, clear & not misleading etc. Sorry, I misread it. i thought it was their rebuttal of your complaint. I am going to write to them again now.
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Apr 13, 2024 20:10:35 GMT
Hi, I wrote to CP again asking them why they are going to take up to 8 weeks to respond to me, but changed their website almost immediately to hide the issue. No response. For full disclosure to other investors, I have sent a complaint to the FCA about CP misleading investors and covering up a potentially large issue, which as far as I can see, by changing the wording on the website they have basically admitted to. If everyone who has multiple pledges in the same project were to ask for their money back with interest or to be placed in other loans they are not over invested in, it will be a big messy undertaking. CP further agree to place Autolend investors funds in "each and every loan launched" for maximum diversification. If everyone were to ask for this to be carried out i think that would be known as "Another fine mess...."  |
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scooter
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Post by scooter on Apr 17, 2024 9:59:02 GMT
Reply from CP
Many thanks for bringing this matter to our attention and thank you for your patience whilst we reviewed your email.
CrowdProperty AutoInvest was developed in 2019 to give investors a quick and easy way to diversify their funds and invest in each project phase launching on the platform. This algorithm has remained the same, investing funds in each and every project phase that launches on the platform. Once again, thank you for making us aware that the wording on our website could be misinterpreted. For the avoidance of doubt, we have improved the wording on our website to ensure this is even more clear.
When a project launches, all investors (including those using AutoInvest) will first receive an email 24 hours prior to the project launch letting them know the details, including the project phase, are available to view in order to allow them to carry out their own due diligence should they wish.
Investors will then receive an email the day the project is launching along with a tailored email each time a new AutoInvest investment is made. This email will detail the amount of the investment along with the details of the project and borrower. All investments can be seen on your loan portfolio, including the project name and phase, amount invested, expected return and duration of the project.
You are notified when you turn on AutoInvest that you will be invested in each and every launch on the platform and should you not wish to be invested in any of the upcoming projects you can turn on the ‘Skip Next Project’ function (please note this will only skip the very next project phase launching on the platform and not all subsequent phases of a project). We also offer a cooling off period whereby you can request to cancel an investment that have been made should you change your mind.
You have been using AutoInvest since 2020 and to date you have invested in 210 projects, 121 of which have repaid at an average realised return of 7.87% (vs your contract rate of 7.49%). You first invested in multiple phases of a project over 3 years ago in March 2021, 25 of these projects have since repaid in full repaying you over £4,500 capital plus £354 interest.
You currently have 89 active projects and your current contract rate is 7.95% (excluding the additional 2% p.a. when a loan passes its loan end date) and we provide project updates on a quarterly basis which can be seen via your loan portfolio.
We appreciate the frustration from the confusion caused here. However, it is important to remember this is a high risk and highly illiquid investment. We do not have a secondary market and you cannot exit an active loan, therefore your funds are committed until repaid by the borrower.
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scooter
Member of DD Central
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Post by scooter on Apr 17, 2024 10:14:39 GMT
So the wording was confusing and could be misinterpreted and has been improved. But i am wrong.
The system is hands off, quick and simple, but i am responsible for checking every hands off investment email.
The word 'phase' was not mentioned until last week.
P2P is risky..... The risk of platforms trying to take investors for fools, or in the case of this platform, relying on it.
This algorithm has remained the same, investing funds in each and every project phase that launches on the platform.
thank you for making us aware that the wording on our website could be misinterpreted
we have improved the wording on our website to ensure this is even more clear.
We appreciate the frustration from the confusion caused here.
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Apr 17, 2024 10:21:34 GMT
Reply from CP Many thanks for bringing this matter to our attention and thank you for your patience whilst we reviewed your email. CrowdProperty AutoInvest was developed in 2019 to give investors a quick and easy way to diversify their funds and invest in each project phase launching on the platform. This algorithm has remained the same, investing funds in each and every project phase that launches on the platform. Once again, thank you for making us aware that the wording on our website could be misinterpreted. For the avoidance of doubt, we have improved the wording on our website to ensure this is even more clear. When a project launches, all investors (including those using AutoInvest) will first receive an email 24 hours prior to the project launch letting them know the details, including the project phase, are available to view in order to allow them to carry out their own due diligence should they wish. Investors will then receive an email the day the project is launching along with a tailored email each time a new AutoInvest investment is made. This email will detail the amount of the investment along with the details of the project and borrower. All investments can be seen on your loan portfolio, including the project name and phase, amount invested, expected return and duration of the project. You are notified when you turn on AutoInvest that you will be invested in each and every launch on the platform and should you not wish to be invested in any of the upcoming projects you can turn on the ‘Skip Next Project’ function (please note this will only skip the very next project phase launching on the platform and not all subsequent phases of a project). We also offer a cooling off period whereby you can request to cancel an investment that have been made should you change your mind. You have been using AutoInvest since 2020 and to date you have invested in 210 projects, 121 of which have repaid at an average realised return of 7.87% (vs your contract rate of 7.49%). You first invested in multiple phases of a project over 3 years ago in March 2021, 25 of these projects have since repaid in full repaying you over £4,500 capital plus £354 interest. You currently have 89 active projects and your current contract rate is 7.95% (excluding the additional 2% p.a. when a loan passes its loan end date) and we provide project updates on a quarterly basis which can be seen via your loan portfolio. We appreciate the frustration from the confusion caused here. However, it is important to remember this is a high risk and highly illiquid investment. We do not have a secondary market and you cannot exit an active loan, therefore your funds are committed until repaid by the borrower. Well done for getting cp to take action on a issue first raised with them 2019.
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Post by scepticalinvestor on Apr 17, 2024 18:01:23 GMT
So the wording was confusing and could be misinterpreted and has been improved. But i am wrong. The system is hands off, quick and simple, but i am responsible for checking every hands off investment email. The word 'phase' was not mentioned until last week. P2P is risky..... The risk of platforms trying to take investors for fools, or in the case of this platform, relying on it. This algorithm has remained the same, investing funds in each and every project phase that launches on the platform.
thank you for making us aware that the wording on our website could be misinterpreted
we have improved the wording on our website to ensure this is even more clear.
We appreciate the frustration from the confusion caused here.Are you planning to pursue this further? I hope you do!
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scooter
Member of DD Central
Posts: 403
Likes: 379
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Post by scooter on Apr 17, 2024 18:32:35 GMT
So the wording was confusing and could be misinterpreted and has been improved. But i am wrong. The system is hands off, quick and simple, but i am responsible for checking every hands off investment email. The word 'phase' was not mentioned until last week. P2P is risky..... The risk of platforms trying to take investors for fools, or in the case of this platform, relying on it. This algorithm has remained the same, investing funds in each and every project phase that launches on the platform.
thank you for making us aware that the wording on our website could be misinterpreted
we have improved the wording on our website to ensure this is even more clear.
We appreciate the frustration from the confusion caused here.Are you planning to pursue this further? I hope you do! Hi, They are supposed to provide a final response for the FO and they did not. I have asked for one. The FCA provided a contact email of someone at CP so i have copied my response to him as well. The FO is not my prefered method of getting results, i do wonder what FCA rules a platform has to break to actually be found to have broken them. But yes, i will persue it.
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Apr 18, 2024 4:28:01 GMT
Are you planning to pursue this further? I hope you do! Why? You should invest a small amount for starters and become familiar with the platform before investing more. Everything seems fairly clear to me, it has always been obvious that different phases of the same loan are purchased by Autoinvest, I noticed that, it is what I expected, I am quite happy with it. The Autoinvest is only a relatively small amount, you can reduce it ( the maximum pledge size) if you wish, you can even cancel an individual auto-pledge after the event which seems fairly generous. Kudos to CP for such a polite and detailed reply.
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rocky1
Member of DD Central
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Post by rocky1 on Apr 18, 2024 5:32:01 GMT
YEP could be worse you could be in KFs auto invest.you might have something to really complain about.
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Post by scepticalinvestor on Apr 18, 2024 7:15:04 GMT
Are you planning to pursue this further? I hope you do! Why? You should invest a small amount for starters and become familiar with the platform before investing more. Everything seems fairly clear to me, it has always been obvious that different phases of the same loan are purchased by Autoinvest, I noticed that, it is what I expected, I am quite happy with it. The Autoinvest is only a relatively small amount, you can reduce it ( the maximum pledge size) if you wish, you can even cancel an individual auto-pledge after the event which seems fairly generous. Kudos to CP for such a polite and detailed reply. None of what you’ve said negates CP’s obligations as per the regulations they need to adhere to. It’s good that you found their literature clear, I thought it to be misleading. And I dare say the OP is pretty knowledgeable on this front. While not the same issues, they did manage to get KF to buy back their outstanding loans with interest and exit the platform. Great outcome imho. p2pindependentforum.com/thread/20571/answer-kufI wish the OP good luck!
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Post by overthehill on Apr 18, 2024 8:20:57 GMT
I take CP's reply as unrepentant and acting innocent. They've never been interested in investor's views, they know better and will stick to the plan e.g. the official justification for no secondary market is BS, their real reasons are not hard to figure out.
I think it comes down to how many investors had no idea or how obvious and transparent is it that your auto-invest portfolio is full of multiple phases of the same loans - I don't know because I don't do autoinvest but I'm guessing a lot of scrolling and a pen or a spreadsheet dump and sort. How many investors seriously use spreadsheets?
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scooter
Member of DD Central
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Post by scooter on Apr 18, 2024 8:46:13 GMT
Are you planning to pursue this further? I hope you do! Why? You should invest a small amount for starters and become familiar with the platform before investing more. Everything seems fairly clear to me, it has always been obvious that different phases of the same loan are purchased by Autoinvest, I noticed that, it is what I expected, I am quite happy with it. The Autoinvest is only a relatively small amount, you can reduce it ( the maximum pledge size) if you wish, you can even cancel an individual auto-pledge after the event which seems fairly generous. Kudos to CP for such a polite and detailed reply. Dave2 Everything you say is true, but everything i have said is true also. The problem is that CP makes one change to the wording and doesn't tell anyone and thinks it is clearer, it isn't. An investor can do everything you suggest (everything CP suggest above) , but autoinvest is advertised as:
Turn On Stress-Free Investing
Hands-off
Maximum diversification
Make your life easier
diversified amongst each and every project
Reduced concentration risk
minimal time and effort
hassle-free
let us do the hard work for you.
For more information on AutoInvest, please see our FAQs here.
A percentage of each loan will be allocated to AutoInvest; that will then be split proportionately amongst AutoInvestors.
If you make a manual pledge, this will mean you have more than one loan in the same project; a loan via AutoInvest and a manual loan
No more than 20% of your AutoInvest funds will be invested in one project
If you’d rather be selective as to which loans you’d like to invest in, please continue to use our Standard Manual Investment product. The FAQs and T&Cs do not mention the word PHASE once. The whole point of this autoinvest system is ruined by Phases. The website was not clear and still isn't. I'm surprised any investor, whether in CP autoinvest or not, would think that this marketing is acceptable. What are FCA rules for? This is misleading, no question in my mind. Investors need to hold P2P platforms to account, because no one who should be doing so, actually is. I respect your opinion, but what you do is not what is marketed on CP website. Thanks for the opportunity to get that rant out of my system.
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jcb208
Member of DD Central
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Post by jcb208 on Apr 18, 2024 15:49:01 GMT
Seem to be waiting for ever for the return of my remaining money, very rarely I have funds to withdraw as the loans get kicked down the road including the former bank
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p2pfan
Member of DD Central
Full-Time Investor
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Post by p2pfan on Apr 18, 2024 22:21:39 GMT
Seem to be waiting for ever for the return of my remaining money, very rarely I have funds to withdraw as the loans get kicked down the road including the former bank This is the crux of the matter. We wouldn't all worry as much about having our AutoInvest funds in multiple tranches of the same loans if there were at least a fair number of redemptions of loans. However, the repayments of capital from borrowers have proportionally plummeted in recent times and there are a gargantuan ratio of loans that are in long-term default now. Some of my loans from as far back as 2019 and 2020 still haven't paid back and there seems to be no eagerness to get lenders' money back promptly. The situation is worrying to say the least. My concern is that CP is obsessed with launching new loans, which gives the 'feel good factor' for the staff in their office (I can visualise the high fives at CrowdProperty HQ each week at having launched X gazillion GDV of new loans) and fodder for the endless press releases bragging about how 'successful' they are. But they are not as focused on the less glamorous and most important part of lending: getting money back from borrowers. Do you think that CP will, at long last, get on top of the growing mountainful of loans in default?
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