agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 4, 2014 12:23:05 GMT
Auction extended by further week (10 days in total) to allow taking out of underwriter!  However I can't see much fresh momentum occuring unless the outstanding question regarding the liquidation a few months ago of one of the subsidiaries is addressed sooner rather than later. There's been only limited interest for this loan since it was first listed. Best to put it out of it's misery, rather than prolonging the pain!
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Post by batchoy on Jan 4, 2014 12:24:22 GMT
Hmmm so that's 25% of my AC portfolio just sitting, waiting, between this and 7 other "Accepted Bids"  Glad I spread my lending over other platforms too. FC loans get drawn down within 7 days of the auction ending, although I accept that they are often different in nature to the majority of AC loans. On TC (where loans appear to be similar to AC) nobody has to wait over 2 months to get a loan drawn down. I don't understand why it takes AC so long. AC loans all have security, not just director guarantees which many FC lenders have found to be pretty much worthless if they are not back by a legal charge over property etc. The problem is that AC is at the mercy of third parties such as mortgage companies who have a 1st charge on a property, which AC want a 2nd charge on. The delays are annoying but they are as a result of AC ensuring that the risks to us are minimised by ensuring that the securities are in place.
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gnasher
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Post by gnasher on Jan 10, 2014 12:57:29 GMT
3 days to go and some important questions still outstanding! I would have expected that a "world record" loan would be treated with a bit more care and attention than this appears to have been so far.
I have a small bid in but beginning to wish I hadn't, certainly no more from me until we get more clarity and comfort about this.
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Post by batchoy on Jan 10, 2014 14:13:59 GMT
The problem with this loan is that is both very big and AC have gone along with the introducer's and borrower's demand for anonymity which has stifled the ability to get clear answers to important questions. Though with a bit of ingenuity, access to public domain business data, it is possible for individuals to obtain answers many of the questions, though in turn access to this information then raises other questions particularly with regard to the structure of the four companies in the group plus the fifth one which bares the group name but does not appear to be part of the group, all of which can't/won't be answered whilst there is a veil of secrecy over who the company is that is borrowing the money.
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Post by mrclondon on Jan 10, 2014 20:18:04 GMT
The lack of enthusiasm on AC part for this loan since the start of the year is making me wonder whether despite being fully underwritten this one may yet fail to fly. I was expecting an email circular today along the lines of "last chance to get cashback, closes on Monday".
Of the two questions asked at the beginning of the week (neither answered), one was a bump of my unanswered question regarding the subsidiary liquidation (which I think we have to accept isn't going to be answered) but the other was an innocuous question regarding flooding/storm damage on the North Devon coast over Christmas which should have taken no more than two 5 minute phone calls to be able to answer. I've thrown another question into the pot though I'm not expecting an answer.
I wonder whether any of the underwriters are getting twitchy that they will still be holding a substantial chunk of this at the end of the 18 months. My main concern at present is that the development plan is dependent on off-plan sales to finance each phase, but the apparently poor management of the holiday lettings side of the business could make achieving the necessary off-plan sales for the later phases of the development very difficult. Completion of the development within 18 months seems a very ambitious target to me.
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j
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Post by j on Jan 10, 2014 22:00:53 GMT
The lack of enthusiasm on AC part for this loan since the start of the year is making me wonder whether despite being fully underwritten this one may yet fail to fly. I was expecting an email circular today along the lines of "last chance to get cashback, closes on Monday". Of the two questions asked at the beginning of the week (neither answered), one was a bump of my unanswered question regarding the subsidiary liquidation (which I think we have to accept isn't going to be answered) but the other was an innocuous question regarding flooding/storm damage on the North Devon coast over Christmas which should have taken no more than two 5 minute phone calls to be able to answer. I've thrown another question into the pot though I'm not expecting an answer. I wonder whether any of the underwriters are getting twitchy that they will still be holding a substantial chunk of this at the end of the 18 months. My main concern at present is that the development plan is dependent on off-plan sales to finance each phase, but the apparently poor management of the holiday lettings side of the business could make achieving the necessary off-plan sales for the later phases of the development very difficult. Completion of the development within 18 months seems a very ambitious target to me. You make a persuasive argument mrclondon & the silence from AC over the last few days both on this loan & in general has been very peculiar. I wonder if they're cooking something interesting up that's taking the major part of their time recently? I must say though that the 50% ltv does give a wide-ish comfort zone & I wouldn't think AC hadn't done their due diligence, whilst taking into account all the point you raise, considering it's their largest loan to date.
Remains to be seen what happens. gla
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 10, 2014 22:34:34 GMT
The lack of enthusiasm on AC part for this loan since the start of the year is making me wonder whether despite being fully underwritten this one may yet fail to fly. I was expecting an email circular today along the lines of "last chance to get cashback, closes on Monday". Of the two questions asked at the beginning of the week (neither answered), one was a bump of my unanswered question regarding the subsidiary liquidation (which I think we have to accept isn't going to be answered) but the other was an innocuous question regarding flooding/storm damage on the North Devon coast over Christmas which should have taken no more than two 5 minute phone calls to be able to answer. I've thrown another question into the pot though I'm not expecting an answer. I wonder whether any of the underwriters are getting twitchy that they will still be holding a substantial chunk of this at the end of the 18 months. My main concern at present is that the development plan is dependent on off-plan sales to finance each phase, but the apparently poor management of the holiday lettings side of the business could make achieving the necessary off-plan sales for the later phases of the development very difficult. Completion of the development within 18 months seems a very ambitious target to me. I think this one may fail to fly simply due to the legals. I'm not expected a speedy conclusion after the auction 'officially' closes and it would probably have been better (from a personal viewpoint) not to commit early and pick up the inevitable bits in the aftermarket. AC though are between a rock and a hard place over this regarding the confidentiality aspect and of course can only supply the answers as they get them back from the prospective borrower. It's always going to be more difficult to get lenders/investors to bid when there are unanswered questions on the table. I'm sure though that AC are aware of this.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 11, 2014 13:37:36 GMT
The susidiary liquidation question needs answering before I would bid. At the least.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 11, 2014 15:27:23 GMT
The lack of enthusiasm on AC part for this loan since the start of the year is making me wonder whether despite being fully underwritten this one may yet fail to fly. I was expecting an email circular today along the lines of "last chance to get cashback, closes on Monday". Of the two questions asked at the beginning of the week (neither answered), one was a bump of my unanswered question regarding the subsidiary liquidation (which I think we have to accept isn't going to be answered) but the other was an innocuous question regarding flooding/storm damage on the North Devon coast over Christmas which should have taken no more than two 5 minute phone calls to be able to answer. I've thrown another question into the pot though I'm not expecting an answer. I wonder whether any of the underwriters are getting twitchy that they will still be holding a substantial chunk of this at the end of the 18 months. My main concern at present is that the development plan is dependent on off-plan sales to finance each phase, but the apparently poor management of the holiday lettings side of the business could make achieving the necessary off-plan sales for the later phases of the development very difficult. Completion of the development within 18 months seems a very ambitious target to me. pick up the inevitable bits in the aftermarket. I was more envisaging a tsunami of loan parts being available as soon as the loan is drawn down. After all the publicity, this one for me has been a bit of a damp squib.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 11, 2014 16:24:16 GMT
FC loans get drawn down within 7 days of the auction ending, although I accept that they are often different in nature to the majority of AC loans. On TC (where loans appear to be similar to AC) nobody has to wait over 2 months to get a loan drawn down. I don't understand why it takes AC so long. AC loans all have security, not just director guarantees which many FC lenders have found to be pretty much worthless if they are not back by a legal charge over property etc. The problem is that AC is at the mercy of third parties such as mortgage companies who have a 1st charge on a property, which AC want a 2nd charge on. The delays are annoying but they are as a result of AC ensuring that the risks to us are minimised by ensuring that the securities are in place. Easy to understand why AC take much longer than FC. Less easy to understand why (on average) they take much longer than TC.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jan 11, 2014 16:29:31 GMT
pick up the inevitable bits in the aftermarket. I was more envisaging a tsunami of loan parts being available as soon as the loan is drawn down. After all the publicity, this one for me has been a bit of a damp squib. Think it's a combination of factors, many of them highlighted by mrclondon earlier. Several things may be putting bidders off from the anonymity requirement to the time from auction close to drawdown. I've got a fair few waiting for drawdown ATM and I hope there is something AC can do in the future to shorten these. With this loan though I think I would have been better waiting for the aftermarket rather than watching dead money.
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Post by jevans4949 on Jan 12, 2014 2:09:38 GMT
If you look at other recent large loans, the total of bids by the non-underwriters have tended to top out at around £300K. Assetz probably have a better handle on this, but it is probably down to the number of lenders we have, and the average amount they are disposed to put into any single loan. A low-end investor probably wouldn't want to put in more than a few hundred, for higher-end investors tens of thousands are no problem. (It would be interesting to have CSV's of the bids to analyse, although probably not in Assetz's interest to supply it) So to have raised £500k on this one (including somebody who put in £160k) is not bad.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 12, 2014 3:07:59 GMT
With this loan though I think I would have been better waiting for the aftermarket rather than watching dead money. I would guess that the 'dead money' issue was a principal driver of the decision to offer cashback. It does ease the pain of watching the dead money -- for a while, anyway! I don't have a clue how long it might take for the underwriters to find takers for £2M of loan parts on the aftermarket, but I do note that the loan parts for the nearly as big L***s C********l do seem to be disappearing reasonably quickly. It would be very easy for this impression to be created by listing loan parts for sale, and then taking them back off the market, but I was under the impression that this wasn't allowed at the moment -- though it's possible that underwriters have more privileges than ordinary lenders. With the recent removal of aftermarket selling fees, I suppose offering lenders could buy them back themselves.
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j
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Post by j on Jan 12, 2014 8:51:00 GMT
plausible point!
I wonder if AC monitor &/or allow such practice to happen on their platform? If we don't get a reply to this one, I guess the answer would be more yes then no.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 12, 2014 10:47:02 GMT
So to have raised £500k on this one (including somebody who put in £160k) is not bad. The loan has been open for 3 weeks and the rank and file have so far provided less than 20% of the total funding. Compare with the £2m airline offering of TC where the members chipped in about £1.9m to what many saw as a poor business model. I wonder if AC are trying to grow too quickly and whether they should concentrate on the £300k - £400k loans until they have more lenders.
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