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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 7, 2024 8:44:06 GMT
... Now, back to the riots  . I didn't have you down as someone who was donning a balaclava and chucking bricks at the police.....
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alender
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Post by alender on Aug 7, 2024 9:44:26 GMT
Basically the MSM is a cartel controlled by the deep state, the owners themselves are irrelevant and generally "fronts". If you want to buy a main stream newspaper in the UK you will probably be vetted by security agencies and if they think you are not going to play ball then your purchase will be "blocked". Editors of all major newspapers have direct links to the "government" who will give them stories they should probably run and tell them certain stories they should not run. If a main stream media owner goes "renegade" and decides to post a story they have been advised not to or starts to cause "trouble" in the eyes of the permanent government then they are entering into some very murky territory, will be viewed as a threat to national security by MI5 etc and it probably will not be in their interests to do this. Some parts of the government control of main stream media is even part of the law: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Notice , although D-Notices are really just the tip of a very big iceberg. There have been some very interesting D-Notices linked to senior members of the Tory party and the Royal Family, although Bracknell will not want to hear about that since he believes the law applies to everyone. One way the government controls what the press will publish is the many government adverts put into the main stream press, they are very wide ranging, 2 examples are health (more than £184m on covid in 2020) and jobs (most in the Guardian). As a media outlet if you disagree with government then you risk having less of the government advertising spend and in the government jobs case putting most adverts in the guardian controls the political sympathies of your work force especially true of the BBC.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 10:30:21 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 10:30:21 GMT
Did I hear that some 10 year olds had been investigated as part of investigations into these riots.
I know some kids are pretty "feral" - ie allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences these days, but how have they been dragged up ( I would normally say brought up but ... )
In some cases if there are consequences for bad behaviour the parents moan -, recently near me a yob hit another car someone stepped into the road to stop him leaving the scene and he ran the guy over then reversed over the gentleman's leg whilst he laid injured on the road. His parents said "he's a good lad, and has never been in trouble and will lose his job if he's sent to jail for a mistake" Hmm - Banned from most shops in the area for thieving. he was 16 so no driving licence, and presumably no insurance, and was driving away from an accident which he'd caused, hitting someone could be a mistake, reversing back over them deliberate.
seriously though if these kids are involved should they be removed from the care of their parents and put in a situation where they learn right from wrong.
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 10:38:24 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 10:38:24 GMT
Did I hear that some 10 year olds had been investigated as part of investigations into these riots. I know some kids are pretty "feral" - ie allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences these days, but how have they been dragged up You assume the parents aren't involved, too. Unfortunately, our care system is so broken that that's at least as likely to do them long-term damage.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 10:52:54 GMT
Did I hear that some 10 year olds had been investigated as part of investigations into these riots. I know some kids are pretty "feral" - ie allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences these days, but how have they been dragged up You assume the parents aren't involved, too. Unfortunately, our care system is so broken that that's at least as likely to do them long-term damage. I suppose it says something about the way I think that I assumed they were local kids getting involved rather than being with parents, which as you say is a distinct possibility. IMHO it reflects very badly on the parents that they think it is OK to get kids involved in such behaviour . on a slight tangent I noticed in some of the news coverage some involved wearing football shirts, one assumes that they aren't stupid enough to wear a shirt with their name / nickname on the back - or am I giving them too much credit for having a few brain cells
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 7, 2024 10:55:59 GMT
You assume the parents aren't involved, too. Unfortunately, our care system is so broken that that's at least as likely to do them long-term damage. I suppose it says something about the way I think that I assumed they were local kids getting involved rather than being with parents, which as you say is a distinct possibility. IMHO it reflects very badly on the parents that they think it is OK to get kids involved in such behaviour . on a slight tangent I noticed in some of the news coverage some involved wearing football shirts, one assumes that they aren't stupid enough to wear a shirt with their name / nickname on the back - or am I giving them too much credit for having a few brain cellsway too much credit There is a lovely photo of one rioter with his trouser leg hitched up for some reason: he is wearing an electronic ankle tag.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 7, 2024 11:29:30 GMT
Michael, thank you for that. It's a lot clearer. I have some sympathy, with some of it, but I disagree with your conclusions. 1. I disagree with you that the BBC is controlled by the government. Influenced? Yes. Controlled? Too strong. 2. ITV is public company. 3. Channel 4 is a publicly owned not-for-profit corporation. [...] Guardian is owned by a not-for-profit trust. That's too charitable a view. No longer a trust and it's always sought a profit. The Scott Trust was initially set up to avoid tax (death duties) and has jinked around taxation subsequently. In 1992, one of its stated core objectives was to remain "a profit-seeking enterprise". The trust was later dissolved and is now a limited company.
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 11:38:12 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 11:38:12 GMT
The trust was later dissolved and is now a limited company. They aren't mutually exclusive. All profits are reinvested within the paper, no dividend is paid, and the equal shareholders are five of the directors (including the editor).
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Greenwood2
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 12:07:16 GMT
Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 7, 2024 12:07:16 GMT
Did I hear that some 10 year olds had been investigated as part of investigations into these riots. I know some kids are pretty "feral" - ie allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences these days, but how have they been dragged up You assume the parents aren't involved, too. Unfortunately, our care system is so broken that that's at least as likely to do them long-term damage. There was a shopkeeper saying children were sent in to loot his shop by the parents. He could see it all from home on on his CCTV cameras, don't know if these are the children in question.
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Post by bernythedolt on Aug 7, 2024 12:11:54 GMT
You assume the parents aren't involved, too. Unfortunately, our care system is so broken that that's at least as likely to do them long-term damage. I suppose it says something about the way I think that I assumed they were local kids getting involved rather than being with parents, which as you say is a distinct possibility. IMHO it reflects very badly on the parents that they think it is OK to get kids involved in such behaviour . The 'delightful' family next door sharing the 3 bed semi council house in which I grew up were red hot commies. The father took his 14yr old son to one London rally which turned ugly. The father got arrested for holding a copper while instructing his son to give him a kicking. The father did 6 months inside, while the son got a curfew, not allowed to leave the house after 7pm. This was the same little sod who, a year later, tied 6 inch nails to his (bow and) arrows and was firing them down from his bedroom window, trying to hit my 3yr old sister toddling in our back garden. Dad collected up and took these vicious weapons to the police station - police weren't interested. Underage, nothing can be done, etc. My dad, from London's East End where they used to sort out their own problems, said he'd deal with it himself then. The police warned him to think again, that he'd be the one going to prison if he did. With four kids to feed, his hands were tied. Plus he was a decent man, the polar opposite of these animals. He and my mum ensured we got a good education, to rise above these gutter  . We had to endure this family for years and I saw how it affected my poor parents. Politicians, lawmakers and judges have no idea what it's like to live amongst the feral brats.
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michaelc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 12:11:59 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 7, 2024 12:11:59 GMT
He joined the BNP in 2004 while Griffin was leader...! He also founded the EDL and PegidaUK, and has long-standing links with the likes of Anne-Marie Waters (For Britain), Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen (Britain First), and their funder Jim Dowson. He was "political adviser" to Gerard Batten during his UKIP leadership. Oh, and Andrew Tate has defended Robinson. (But, yeh, you're right that he's a little bit less subtle and oblique in his extremism than Farage) He joined 20 years ago for a few months. According to Wikipedia he claimed he didn't know non-whites were barred from joining. He is no Nick Griffin. But you knew this so why only paste half the story? Oh silly me, I know why. You got the idea from the filtered media you read and round and round we go....
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michaelc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 12:18:55 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 7, 2024 12:18:55 GMT
The trust was later dissolved and is now a limited company. They aren't mutually exclusive. All profits are reinvested within the paper, no dividend is paid, and the equal shareholders are five of the directors (including the editor). So what influence do those five directors have over the output of the paper? Why should I care what those 5 think anymore than I care what Murdoch thinks or anyone else having significant control over a paper?
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adrianc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 12:42:07 GMT
Post by adrianc on Aug 7, 2024 12:42:07 GMT
He joined the BNP in 2004 while Griffin was leader...! He also founded the EDL and PegidaUK, and has long-standing links with the likes of Anne-Marie Waters (For Britain), Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen (Britain First), and their funder Jim Dowson. He was "political adviser" to Gerard Batten during his UKIP leadership. Oh, and Andrew Tate has defended Robinson. (But, yeh, you're right that he's a little bit less subtle and oblique in his extremism than Farage) He joined 20 years ago for a few months. According to Wikipedia he claimed he didn't know non-whites were barred from joining. Yeh, of course he didn't. I mean, it's not as if the BNP were totally unknown in 2004, the year of a couple of TV documentaries exposing them for what they were, the year after they had widespread coverage following a few high-profile local election wins. Nobody joined the BNP in 2004 without knowing EXACTLY what they were joining. Less than a year later Yaxley-Lennon was imprisoned for kicking a police officer in the head. Four years after that he founded the EDL. A clue as to some of the coverage of the time: May 2004 - highprofiles.info/interview/nick-griffin/"What was your attitude to apartheid? As a nationalist, did you see South Africa as the property of the indigenous majority, which was the black people?
Well, we’re not white supremacists, we’re basically white separatists. The whites had a right to a chunk of that country because they were there first – they got to South Africa before the Bantu – but they had no right to expect black people to empty their dustbins while keeping them down and not giving them a vote. It was unnatural, it was unworkable and it was immoral. They should have emptied their own dustbins and said, ‘We’re going to have this piece of land and you have that piece.’
So, you would have had no sympathy with the white supremacism of the Afrikaners –
None whatsoever. Revolting.
– but you’d have had a more nuanced…
Basically we’d say, ‘We live here, you live there and there’s a wall between the two.’ I don’t think that’s nuanced at all: it’s fairly blunt.
...
What about the West Indian volunteers who flew in the Battle of Britain? Do they have some entitlement to a share in what they fought to protect?
Yes, they might. But equally the people of this country have a right to preserve their own culture, their own identity and to rule themselves. And you could have had every single West Indian pilot who fought for this country in the war and his entire extended family and they’d fill two or three streets in Brixton, and that would have been it."May 2004 - www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/may/24/localgovernment.thefarright - does that sound even remotely like the sort of thing Are Tommeh would do? Yes, actually, very much so. July 2004 - www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/jul/15/uk.raceThe BBC documentary - news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8320000/8320387.stm - watch: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpEISv5Qd2s...and a 2001 similar doc - news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8319000/8319192.stm - watch: news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/default.stm
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 13:21:35 GMT
Post by keitha on Aug 7, 2024 13:21:35 GMT
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michaelc
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Riots
Aug 7, 2024 13:29:25 GMT
Post by michaelc on Aug 7, 2024 13:29:25 GMT
My aim in this little discussion is not to support him as I don't. I am saying he is probably not racist and is not as bad as the hard-core BNP/skinhead types but I accept he may attract some of those. Frankly those sort are probably better led by him than a Hitler type. He also appears to have a deeper understanding of the world than he did 20 years ago including other faiths.
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