alender
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Post by alender on Oct 31, 2024 21:27:44 GMT
NI for small businesses with low paid workers will be rough. The reduction in threshold is very big (About £9,000 - £5000 I think), apart from the rate increase and then there's increase in minimum wage. Not going to be good for people on low wages trying to get or keep a job. Rumblings already that small businesses will fold. No tax rises for workers, but will some of them have a job. And IHT on farms may mean the end of many family farms. Now wait and see what devils were hidden in the detail. Just been talking to a friend of mine who runs a small retail/whole sale Fruit and Veg business. The costs from yesterdays budget is £35,000 pa, they don't know what they are going to do as the business has not done very well since Covid and ULEZ (had to change a number of vans at a huge cost). I know he would like to down size or shut it down and just work for himself but the redundancy payments would bankrupt the company and all the money put in would be lost. They work 6 days a week very long hours, 3am to 7pm less a few hours off for sleep in the day if no staff issues but also working Sunday in the summer at car boots to keep things going. Before Covid the business was doing very well and expanding but now stuck with 28 staff and only way to reduce is through natural wastage, hopefully it won't fold but at present this looks likely. He looks very depressed. Also expecting a number of companies to accelerate off shoring or out sourcing to off shore companies, may be the only way they can survive.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 4, 2024 9:19:10 GMT
I suppose you don't mind voted for them last summer for the unexpected increase for vaping. Had it been in their manifesto I would still have voted for them. The £2.20 feels punitive, punishes those who try to move away from cigarettes (though I accept it will make it more difficult for children to start on vapes, but there are other enforcement mechanisms there that could be employed), and as overthehill 's comment implies is a small enough segment of the population that they can afford to piss them off. It just feels lazy an unhelpful. Still, in the context of the overall budget it's a bit of a nothingburger. I was giving serious thought to trying to get off the vapes myself. I just would have preferred to approach it on my terms, rather than those imposed on me by the government. A lot of small business will go under as a result of this. Oh well. Someone confirmed that 10ml of vaping liquid is equivalent to 80-100 cigarettes. I see that the cost of vaping liquid is currently around £3 /10ml. So in relative terms the £2.20 is a large number (hence your "80% more expensive). But a packet of 20 cigarettes is what: £13-15 ? So even with the vape tax, vaping is still no more than about 5% of the cost of smoking cigarettes? In addition, I see that they also added £2.20 additional tax on a packet of fags - I assume on top of whatever duty rise they made. So the absolute differential is maintained and my calculation on relative price is worst case. Have I got those sums wrong? If not, in reality it doesn't move the dial at all on the financial incentive to move from cigarettes to vaping. On the flip side, at those levels it also doesn't really provide a financial disincentive to stop young people taking up vaping. And we should be concerned about what is happening with vaping. Vaping has been a real success in terms of helping people to quit smoking. But we don't know how bad the long term impacts of vaping will be, and there is evidence that in practise it does carry higher risks than initially thought. The younger generations had not been taking up smoking in anything like the numbers people used to, but vaping has become a trendy cool thing. One result of that is that the numbers of people addicted to nicotine have soared, after years of decline due to the decrease in smoking. About 36% of 16-24 year olds are now using nicotine products. That is a whole new cohort of people hooked on a particularly addictive drug, taken through a delivery system which is definitely not damage free, and whose long term impacts we don't know enough about. None of which is to say that I think the solution is big taxes on vaping. But I think this is an issue wider society needs to be thinking about now, not in 30-40 years time.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 4, 2024 9:25:38 GMT
bracknellboy the only thing I'd question in what you wrote above is the first sentence. I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion but I can tell you that it was not my experience (eg I used to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day, but I'd use a couple of 10ml bottles of juice a day. That's quite a difference). Anyway, it's given me the nudge I needed to move to a different product (a nicotine pouch a bit like a friendly version of snus). It's very different in terms of use / consumption, but so far is working... well enough... to drastically reduce my e-cig use.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 4, 2024 9:34:31 GMT
bracknellboy the only thing I'd question in what you wrote above is the first sentence. I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion but I can tell you that it was not my experience (eg I used to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day, but I'd use a couple of 10ml bottles of juice a day. That's quite a difference). Anyway, it's given me the nudge I needed to move to a different product (a nicotine pouch a bit like a friendly version of snus). It's very different in terms of use / consumption, but so far is working... well enough... to drastically reduce my e-cig use. I also don't know, but it does seem to be a common metric. For example, the counter balance rise on cigarettes was £2.20 on 100 cigarettes: "A one-off increase for tobacco tax in October 2026 to maintain the price differential with vaping and incentivise smokers to switch. This will raise the price of 100 cigarettes and 50 grams of hand-rolled tobacco by £2.20." I've also seen numbers like 200 cigarettes used. Nicotine wise, of course the relative strengths are going to play a huge part. I've also seen 10ml equated to ~ 3000 puffs. You are right that is of course a huge difference. Are you sure you haven't been drinking it rather than inhaling it ? 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 4, 2024 9:36:30 GMT
bracknellboy the only thing I'd question in what you wrote above is the first sentence. I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion but I can tell you that it was not my experience (eg I used to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day, but I'd use a couple of 10ml bottles of juice a day. That's quite a difference). As, indeed, is £6 vs £20/day.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 4, 2024 9:58:37 GMT
bracknellboy the only thing I'd question in what you wrote above is the first sentence. I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion but I can tell you that it was not my experience (eg I used to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day, but I'd use a couple of 10ml bottles of juice a day. That's quite a difference). As, indeed, is £6 vs £20/day. Would you not need to factor in the paraphernalia needed to convert the juice into a vape able state?
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 4, 2024 10:07:36 GMT
bracknellboy the only thing I'd question in what you wrote above is the first sentence. I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion but I can tell you that it was not my experience (eg I used to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day, but I'd use a couple of 10ml bottles of juice a day. That's quite a difference). Anyway, it's given me the nudge I needed to move to a different product (a nicotine pouch a bit like a friendly version of snus). It's very different in terms of use / consumption, but so far is working... well enough... to drastically reduce my e-cig use. Hopefully those are tobacco free pouches ? (And hence your contrast with snus).
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 4, 2024 10:11:15 GMT
bracknellboy the only thing I'd question in what you wrote above is the first sentence. I have no idea how they arrived at that conclusion but I can tell you that it was not my experience (eg I used to smoke 30 to 40 cigarettes a day, but I'd use a couple of 10ml bottles of juice a day. That's quite a difference). Anyway, it's given me the nudge I needed to move to a different product (a nicotine pouch a bit like a friendly version of snus). It's very different in terms of use / consumption, but so far is working... well enough... to drastically reduce my e-cig use. Hopefully those are tobacco free pouches ? (And hence your contrast with snus). Well they definitely have nicotine in them, there wouldn't be any point to them otherwise!
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 4, 2024 10:17:11 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 4, 2024 10:25:33 GMT
As, indeed, is £6 vs £20/day. Would you not need to factor in the paraphernalia needed to convert the juice into a vape able state? Isn't that just a one-off purchase? Even then, it's still recouped within a day, is it not?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 4, 2024 10:35:44 GMT
Would you not need to factor in the paraphernalia needed to convert the juice into a vape able state? Isn't that just a one-off purchase? Even then, it's still recouped within a day, is it not? Yeah. Say you spend £50 on a mod, tank and battery. Amortise that across a year or two and it's essentially meaningless.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 4, 2024 10:38:57 GMT
Would you not need to factor in the paraphernalia needed to convert the juice into a vape able state? Isn't that just a one-off purchase? Even then, it's still recouped within a day, is it not? No, Batteries and coils would be recurring expenses. Although there is World of options available. Recharging costs while minor would also be incurred
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