am
Posts: 1,495 
Likes: 601
|
Post by am on Mar 7, 2015 21:31:56 GMT
On a cursory examination seems to be in the same space as The House Crowd and Property Moose. London properties, with low dividend yields, so I don't find it particularly attractive. www.propertypartner.coAlso, advertised in Investors Chronicle www.howrefreshinginvest.co.ukbut this seems to be for institutions ("professional investors") only. (£5,000 minimum investment, and the tone of the ad seemed to aimed at high net work individuals, but I looked up the meaning of professional investor, and it seems to exclude all individuals.) |
|
webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
|
Post by webwiz on Mar 8, 2015 18:35:35 GMT
I agree. The yields are low so you are relying on capital appreciation. London has been best for this recently, but who knows the future? Property Moose buys in the north so yields are higher, but house price growth has been slower in the past up there. Take your pick.
|
|
|
|
Post by penguinz on Jun 1, 2015 15:57:03 GMT
Property Partner has a very good and very active secondary market which provides liquidity as a stock market would. A house is divided up into tens of thousands of shares which trade for a couple of pounds each, easy in, easy out. Property Moose snd the Housecrowd require a 500£-1000 investment respectively and do not offer a secondary market, it is possible to offload your shares but it costs a bit of money and is quite a lot of paperwork and hassle apparently.
|
|
webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
|
Post by webwiz on Jun 24, 2015 11:28:13 GMT
Property Partner has a very good and very active secondary market which provides liquidity as a stock market would. A house is divided up into tens of thousands of shares which trade for a couple of pounds each, easy in, easy out. Property Moose snd the Housecrowd require a 500£-1000 investment respectively and do not offer a secondary market, it is possible to offload your shares but it costs a bit of money and is quite a lot of paperwork and hassle apparently. IMHO the SM on PP is the only likely exit route for most investors (see website for details). This is fine while demand is high but if London property prices stalled (or fell) and there were more investors trying to sell on the SM than demand you could find it difficult to exit at a profit. The reason that selling shares in PM is more hassle than in PP is because with PM you own a legal share in the SPV which owns the freehold, whereas with PP you only have a nominal share. This distinction could be important in the case of platform failure and/or a property crash. As I said before, take your pick; there are advantages and disadvantages in both models.
|
|
|
|
Post by webbski9 on Jun 24, 2015 17:26:44 GMT
Looks like a good alternative to Property Moose with a very clear website,good management and very good backing.
A reasonable way to enter the Buy to Let market without the hastle.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnsnow on Jul 16, 2015 4:48:38 GMT
Hi Guys,
first post here, so please easy on me.
I have just started looking into these kind of investments and there is a something I can not get my head around (will approach Andrew/PM too in another thread).
Where is the money in these crowd funding platforms (for the platform providers)?
THC made 460k (if remember well) in 2-3 years and no profit (as it was in Dragons Den)!
PM makes no money on fees, outsourcing rental, only gambling on property prices, so technically no profit in the mean time.
Property Partners charges 2% + 12.5% management, raised 6M, very rough calculation 250k income in 6 months, at least 5-6 staff, no profit (I believe)
So, how does it all makes sense?
More on this, Property Partner raised 5.2M on 10%, what values a company with no income to 50M?
So, I am sure I am missing a point here, anyone could share a light?
Thanks
John
|
|
bigfoot12
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 816
|
Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 16, 2015 8:37:32 GMT
Hi Guys, first post here, so please easy on me. I have just started looking into these kind of investments and there is a something I can not get my head around (will approach Andrew/PM too in another thread). Where is the money in these crowd funding platforms (for the platform providers)? THC made 460k (if remember well) in 2-3 years and no profit (as it was in Dragons Den)! PM makes no money on fees, outsourcing rental, only gambling on property prices, so technically no profit in the mean time. Property Partners charges 2% + 12.5% management, raised 6M, very rough calculation 250k income in 6 months, at least 5-6 staff, no profit (I believe) So, how does it all makes sense? More on this, Property Partner raised 5.2M on 10%, what values a company with no income to 50M? So, I am sure I am missing a point here, anyone could share a light? Thanks John I assume that THC is concentrating on growth rather than immediate profit. At the moment there are plenty of people happy to fund growth at reasonably high valuations (perhaps not £20m). I no longer invest through them, but they are getting to the stage that they can contemplate large developments. I think that they will get bigger. As property prices rise they will start to receive some of the 25%-50% share of the capital gains. Even if capital growth is slow remember it isn't their capital tied up. These are hardly the first companies to go for growth rather then early profit - Twitter, Google, Amazon and even Moonpig had no profit for 6 years.
|
|
|
|
Post by highlandtiger on Dec 20, 2015 19:06:42 GMT
Just wondering if there are any other users of Property Partner here. I have a small stake in a number of properties with them, and so far I have been very impressed.
Anyone else?
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Dec 20, 2015 19:16:10 GMT
Just wondering if there are any other users of Property Partner here. I have a small stake in a number of properties with them, and so far I have been very impressed. Anyone else? no I have not used it what sort of returns are you getting ?
|
|
|
|
Post by highlandtiger on Dec 20, 2015 21:13:15 GMT
Just wondering if there are any other users of Property Partner here. I have a small stake in a number of properties with them, and so far I have been very impressed. Anyone else? no I have not used it what sort of returns are you getting ? Been getting about 3% (pa) on the rental yield, but the capital seems to be rising nicely, with a decent secondary market, where you can cash in early any short term profits, and you don't have to wait the five years to exit. Takes about a day to sell on the SM, but it does sell and they don't charge fees to sellers. The projections appearing to be heading to a combined rental and capital yield of about 13% (pa). My own figures to date show this figure to be about right The problem is getting bits of new properties as they come up. An £800,000 piece of property can be funded within 60 seconds of going live. They've just started trialing a version of pre-funding, so the little guy can still get some action.
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Dec 20, 2015 21:23:40 GMT
no I have not used it what sort of returns are you getting ? Been getting about 3% (pa) on the rental yield, but the capital seems to be rising nicely, with a decent secondary market, where you can cash in early any short term profits, and you don't have to wait the five years to exit. Takes about a day to sell on the SM, but it does sell and they don't charge fees to sellers. The projections appearing to be heading to a combined rental and capital yield of about 13% (pa). My own figures to date show this figure to be about right The problem is getting bits of new properties as they come up. An £800,000 piece of property can be funded within 60 seconds of going live. They've just started trialing a version of pre-funding, so the little guy can still get some action. I might have a look at that then and see how it goes as am in PM but think I have invested enough into that for the time being
|
|
j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
|
Post by j on Dec 21, 2015 2:39:49 GMT
Had a very quick look. Looks like at least 12.5% in fees apply. Will investigate further over next few days & see how it compares with pm/thc. Thanks for mentioning though highlandtiger |
|
|
|
Post by reeknralf on Dec 21, 2015 8:26:00 GMT
I can second highlandtiger 's view. I personally prefer crowd2let, because they do some renovation, whereas property partner seem to mainly buy recently renovated/built properties. My global objection to all the crowd funded property sites is they structure the SPV's such that the investors get 80% of the capital gain and income, and the govt takes the rest in corporation tax. As such, returns need to be 25% higher than P2P lending in order to be competitive. If the investments were structured as loans to an SPV, instead of shares in an SPV, investors could have 100% of the returns. I've brought this up on here before, and with some of the platforms, but run into flannel and apathy. There seems to be a very obvious opportunity for Property Partner et al to tie up with the likes of AC ( chris) to offer high-ticket 100% LTV loans in residential properties. The charge held over the property would mean investors were in effect equity investors, but there'd be no corporation tax. Perhaps IR would block such schemes. |
|
|
|
Post by highlandtiger on Dec 21, 2015 8:39:56 GMT
Had a very quick look. Looks like at least 12.5% in fees apply. Will investigate further over next few days & see how it compares with pm/thc. Thanks for mentioning though highlandtiger Those fees of 10.5% + Vat are taken off the gross of the rental money, but on average you are still getting around 3% rental dividend net. A 2% charge is taken from the initial investment but that is it, no more charges whatsoever. If you buy on the secondary market there is an additional 0.5% Stamp Duty, but you can often offset that by buying from people offering shares at below market value. If I sold the shares I bought in July at current market value, (and all current evidence that should be no problem), after fees and taxes etc, I'd have made just under 9% profit for those 6 months. You usually get a boost in the initial year, I've noticed, because of some canny buying opportunities, where they have been buying up developments at a discount by offering a cash purchase to the property developers. Plus the fact that you can start from £50, and can purchase shares within seconds, unlike PM and HC where initial investments are much higher and the process more convoluted. The reason I started to invest with them, was because of the backing they had, by the guy who created Betfair. As an ex-bookie myself, I know how much betfair shook up the betting industry, (for the better in my opinion), and I'm hoping that his involvement in PP means that a similar thing can be done in this sector.
|
|
|
|
Post by highlandtiger on Dec 21, 2015 8:48:54 GMT
I can second highlandtiger 's view. I personally prefer crowd2let, because they do some renovation, whereas property partner seem to mainly buy recently renovated/built properties. My global objection to all the crowd funded property sites is they structure the SPV's such that the investors get 80% of the capital gain and income, and the govt takes the rest in corporation tax. As such, returns need to be 25% higher than P2P lending in order to be competitive. If the investments were structured as loans to an SPV, instead of shares in an SPV, investors could have 100% of the returns. I've brought this up on here before, and with some of the platforms, but run into flannel and apathy. There seems to be a very obvious opportunity for Property Partner et al to tie up with the likes of AC ( chris ) to offer high-ticket 100% LTV loans in residential properties. The charge held over the property would mean investors were in effect equity investors, but there'd be no corporation tax. Perhaps IR would block such schemes.The way the government is cracking down on BTL's I think you are probably right there. Still waiting to see if companies like PP, THC, PM et al will be exempt from the increase in stamp duty on BTL's, as the government did indicate there would be exemptions for companies that owned more than 15 properties I believe. But there is a grey area, still unresolved, regarding SPV's.
|
|
