mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Jul 31, 2015 14:36:12 GMT
They expire at 2 weeks. They [can] also expire if the loan becomes due for a payment (it becomes not-for-sale and not-saleable, until the payment clears). It then is NOT returned to the market, you have to relist it. You cannot rely on this behaviour (but need to be aware of it if you were expecting all loan parts to remain listed for the full 2 weeks). If the payment has already cleared before the payment due date, the system can process the repayment immediately, without removing the loan parts from sale. I don't rely on that behaviour. You can't "rely" on any behaviour being guaranteed, what with some of the weird breakages in terms of listing, having available for sale, being able to be bought etc.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Jul 31, 2015 14:39:20 GMT
They also expire if the loan becomes due for a payment (it becomes not-for-sale and not-saleable, until the payment clears). It then is NOT returned to the market, you have to relist it. Do they? I have multiple parts on sale which have had payments made and none of them have been automatically delisted before the payment. Does that mean False Conveyancing is pulling the wool over my eyes and I have to manually delist & relist after each payment (or the loan wont show on the SM)? Actually I sold a part today, the day after it made its interest payment, and didnt have to relist it. Or does that not apply to interest only property loans just amortizing SME loans? Do they? Yes, sometimes. Annoyingly. No, you don't have to delist them, they get delisted automatically, it's the relisting that's the pain. When you bunt them out onto the SM, they don't always remain for 2 weeks, as evidenced by returning to the list of "eligible for sale" and seeing some back there, eligible, when they were only listed a few days ago. And having to push them out again. No idea about the property ones, I'm not churning those!
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Jul 31, 2015 15:35:53 GMT
You cannot rely on this behaviour (but need to be aware of it if you were expecting all loan parts to remain listed for the full 2 weeks). If the payment has already cleared before the payment due date, the system can process the repayment immediately, without removing the loan parts from sale. I don't rely on that behaviour. You can't "rely" on any behaviour being guaranteed, what with some of the weird breakages in terms of listing, having available for sale, being able to be bought etc. Not really you specifically (if you had been relying on it you'd soon have found out...), but anyone who read your post and expected their loan parts to be automatically delisted when a payment was made, as it is quite normal and common behaviour for parts NOT to be delisted. I have on occasion in the past checked out which loans had a payment due that night, identify any attractively priced loan parts before the payment clears, and as soon as the system starts showing the "ex-payment" price, buy the ones that are still there, avoiding any non-payment risk for that payment, and letting the seller bear the cost of that month's fee. I'd be surprised if none of the various bots that interact with the site follow a similar strategy.
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min
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Post by min on Jul 31, 2015 15:38:52 GMT
Do they? I have multiple parts on sale which have had payments made and none of them have been automatically delisted before the payment. Does that mean False Conveyancing is pulling the wool over my eyes and I have to manually delist & relist after each payment (or the loan wont show on the SM)? Actually I sold a part today, the day after it made its interest payment, and didnt have to relist it. Or does that not apply to interest only property loans just amortizing SME loans? Do they? Yes, sometimes. Annoyingly. No, you don't have to delist them, they get delisted automatically, it's the relisting that's the pain. When you bunt them out onto the SM, they don't always remain for 2 weeks, as evidenced by returning to the list of "eligible for sale" and seeing some back there, eligible, when they were only listed a few days ago. And having to push them out again. No idea about the property ones, I'm not churning those! Sometimes parts up for sale appear in your 'for sale' list but do not appear on the SM as viewed by others. And (for me) it is always after the repayment date - note some parts NOT all. One way to check is to open a second account to see if your parts are listed. That can be difficult if there are lots as it doesn't show the name of the seller until purchased. Another way is to use the method described here: p2pindependentforum.com/post/52567
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jul 31, 2015 17:54:18 GMT
If there are several states parts offered at the same price, is there any logic* to the order they are in, such as longest on market first?
*i realise that I've asked a question about FC which involved the word logic. I will learn better one day.
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pom
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Post by pom on Jul 31, 2015 18:39:56 GMT
I'm starting to form the conclusion that it might be worth regularly delisting & relisting. Had 4 sales today after doing that having not had any over the last few days, and am sure most of the ones that sold were still for sale before I started (yet interestingly none of the ones I decided this time around to add a discount to!). Just a shame it's a bit of a faff...
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jul 31, 2015 19:10:21 GMT
If there are several states parts offered at the same price, is there any logic* to the order they are in, such as longest on market first? *i realise that I've asked a question about FC which involved the word logic. I will learn better one day. Yes, they are listed in loan-part-id number order. FC accepts that this is not ideal but AFAIK has yet to fix it. Autobuy will take one at random, but manual buyers will see them in that order. Hence if you bought a block of parts by placing 10 bids as fast as possible, you will likely sell them in a group (time-wise close together) too. I have checked this out after wondering why my partner and I, both offering 10 parts in a loan, will usually sell all of hers before any of mine, or vice versa. Ooops, I assume it was obvious, but maybe not .. loan-part-ID numbers are assigned sequentially to winning bids. [just to confuse matters there are also bid-id-numbers, assigned to all bids, and secondary-market-part-for-sale part numbers (which you can sort on if you want to look at the most recently listed SM parts - see thread about it some time ago].
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pom
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Post by pom on Jul 31, 2015 20:50:14 GMT
As Jonah said... maybe we should give up trying to apply any logic !
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Jul 31, 2015 22:18:06 GMT
Yes, they are listed in loan-part-id number order... Hmmm... are the lowest loan part IDs assigned to the earliest bids, or are they "random"? Could be a hidden incentive for earlier bids?
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Aug 1, 2015 7:38:10 GMT
Yes, they are listed in loan-part-id number order... My apologies to FC... That is at least one way to do it. It would also mean that churning parts by relisting wouldn't have any effect.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Aug 1, 2015 12:36:03 GMT
Yes, they are listed in loan-part-id number order... Hmmm... are the lowest loan part IDs assigned to the earliest bids, or are they "random"? Could be a hidden incentive for earlier bids? Actually on the ones I've checked it's the LATER bids which get the lowest loan part numbers, as far as I can tell. But I doubt you can rely on it, and it may have to do with part sizes rather than age (my later bids tend to be smaller which is how I can ID them as later .. otherwise there's no way to tell my bids apart .. until they get unique loan part IDs. 8>.) I could check against my Partner's account, if she knew exactly when bids were placed (and it's be days ago, probably).
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 10, 2015 14:31:35 GMT
Take a look at 14722, a £212k D band loan about to close in an hour's time. The "tall guy" looks likely to pick up over £40k of it in £960 chunks at 14.5% (having bid on it 6 days ago), yet it seems likely to close with some 14.9% bids still in, presumably because many lenders must find the company's activities distasteful in the current "anti-chugging" climate. That may take some flipping!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 10, 2015 14:40:31 GMT
Take a look at 14722, a £212k D band loan about to close in an hour's time. The "tall guy" looks likely to pick up over £40k of it in £960 chunks at 14.5% (having bid on it 6 days ago), yet it seems likely to close with some 14.9% bids still in, presumably because many lenders must find the company's activities distasteful in the current "anti-chugging" climate. That may take some flipping! Not to mention £70k+ of £960 bids in 14814, a £360k A+ which has only JUST managed to stagger to 100% funding with two days to go, and still has £18k of 15% in... He'll be praying that doesn't close early...
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 10, 2015 15:27:27 GMT
Looks like 14722 has now been declined in any case (close shave, perhaps).
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Post by nickthefool on Aug 10, 2015 15:38:10 GMT
Looks like 14722 has now been declined in any case (close shave, perhaps). At least it didn't wait a week before doing so, I guess. Do loans often get declined immediately as the auction closes?
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