tony
Posts: 136 
Likes: 91
|
Post by tony on Mar 27, 2015 15:50:40 GMT
It appears, although please correct me if I'm wrong, that SS automatically extend a loan without allowing existing lenders the opportunity to exit as per the original loan agreement. Whilst you can always of course exit via the SM you are still left waiting for the interest to be paid. All a bit odd to me - maybe savingstream would care to comment? Where did the Super Yacht ext come from, SS have never advised me or sent me an email about this ext, only found out by just looking on here tonight! Very poor SS, explanation please pronto!I can understand SS preferring to extend a loan rather than treat it as having defaulted. However, when this concerns large loans, I don't expect them to offer to buy the loan parts back from investors who do not wish to accept the extended term and I can foresee this alternative disappearing altogether should there be a downturn in the property market - which there will be before too long. The platform could find itself with a loan book comprising nothing but extended loans, fewer new investors and a very sluggish or static secondary market.
I think we investors should be very, very cautious in future and treat P2P as a gamble rather than a sound investment.
|
|
merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
|
Post by merlin on Mar 27, 2015 18:55:41 GMT
tony You are well advised to view all P2P lending as a gamble. What else could it be with interest rates in double figures when Bank rate is a fraction of 1%? In my view you should never lend/gamble more than you can afford to loose and the higher the interest rate offered the higher the probability of losing.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
|
Post by bugs4me on Mar 27, 2015 22:32:35 GMT
Where did the Super Yacht ext come from, SS have never advised me or sent me an email about this ext, only found out by just looking on here tonight! Very poor SS, explanation please pronto!I can understand SS preferring to extend a loan rather than treat it as having defaulted. However, when this concerns large loans, I don't expect them to offer to buy the loan parts back from investors who do not wish to accept the extended term and I can foresee this alternative disappearing altogether should there be a downturn in the property market - which there will be before too long. The platform could find itself with a loan book comprising nothing but extended loans, fewer new investors and a very sluggish or static secondary market.
I think we investors should be very, very cautious in future and treat P2P as a gamble rather than a sound investment.
I'm inclined to agree with your thinking regarding a possible or potential downturn in the property market so wise to revisit those LTV's. Not possible though with SS as effectively we lend to Lendy so AFAIK whilst on paper the loans may appear segregated, in reality they are not. Not sure how robust their PF is ATM.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 15:25:52 GMT
Already the first PBL has gone into default and it seems a few others coming up for maturity / repayment are being extended in order to avoid further defaults. Based on the early evidence it doesn't seem to me that these PBLs are looking very robust. Given current political and economic uncertainties, the normal, cyclical nature of the land and property market, the impacts on values that changes to planning laws can have, the sometimes air-brushed LTVs and the underlying concern that borrowers would surely obtain finance from more mainstream sources at lower interest rates were they able to, little of what's been happening recently with SS and its operations has increased my confidence in the platform / business model. In fact, the reverse is true and I'm starting to feel a bit twitchy about the whole thing.
The other (related) issue of SS starting to change the terms of a few, close to maturity loans after people have invested their money in them on the basis of a particular expectation based on the initial, advertised investment terms is also slightly worrying to me.
But then, as my old Mum who keeps all her money in banks and building societies at about 1% or less interest says, you can't get 12% interest without accepting a lot of risk. I think that's just common sense really - and it all comes down to our own personal risk appetite and where we sit on the risk versus reward scale.
In general , I have noticed a bit of a change in the SS model over the year I have been an investor. Bigger, seemingly higher risk loans - and with the rapid growth and move towards bigger ££ numbers seems to have come the (inevitable) reduction in the standard of customer care and communication. What I'm saying is - it used to feel like a friendly, approachable business where the risks seemed well managed and investors felt listened to and a part of it. I don't feel quite the same vibes anymore as the platform has grown, I feel a bit disconnected and less important, which is a shame - but I suppose was always going to happen as the word got out and SS grew and attracted big investors.
The effect of my perceptions and concerns is that I won't be increasing my investments in SS and, in fact, I'm thinking of reducing my exposure a little.
All that said, so far I've been a happy SS investor and my monthly 12% interest payments have been very helpful to me and the liquidity provided by the SM is excellent.
|
|
j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
|
Post by j on Mar 28, 2015 22:29:11 GMT
@interesthunter, agree with your sentiments totally but, what you've said applies to most other platforms (eg FC, AC & the currently smaller ones who survive & get bigger will be the same eventually). The platforms will always try to grow bigger & bigger & most, if not all, would be too happy to go institutional if it makes them a load of money. The cycle is the same with each one, we help build them in the early days, they make us feel important & whne they are big & not so much in need of us, the situation is reversed.
|
|
merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
Likes: 302
|
Post by merlin on Mar 28, 2015 23:06:58 GMT
@fastfox I too agree with your sentiments but just be careful that you don't shoot SS's fox only then to see the SM seize-up. AC also seem to be setting the pattern with more of their PBL's running into trouble and a general slowing in response times to the more difficult questions from lenders regarding defaulters.
|
|
|
|
Post by zzr600 on Mar 29, 2015 12:53:44 GMT
@fastfox I too agree with your sentiments but just be careful that you don't shoot SS's fox only then to see the SM seize-up. AC also seem to be setting the pattern with more of their PBL's running into trouble and a general slowing in response times to the more difficult questions from lenders regarding defaulters. I think defaults and hiccups are inevitable, hence the 12% return. I don't think defaults per se are a problem if the valuations at the start have been reasonably accurate and the process to recoup the loan are robust and timely. The UK being the way it is (with very tight planning rules) makes land/property fairly safe except in exceptional downturns. Not to say that a downturn will not happen, but with LTV of ~70% you'd need a fairly bad drop in the market before it becomes illiquid or you start to sell at an overall loss to the lender.
|
|
j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
|
Post by j on Mar 29, 2015 12:54:41 GMT
@fastfox I too agree with your sentiments but just be careful that you don't shoot SS's fox only then to see the SM seize-up. AC also seem to be setting the pattern with more of their PBL's running into trouble and a general slowing in response times to the more difficult questions from lenders regarding defaulters. The only thing I'll say for SS for the singular default so far is that they were very quick in initiating sale proceedings on that particular loan. If you compare that to the very slow, multiple voting need, imposed by certain other platforms....well. you get the picture. Yes, we have tobe morally responsible & give leeway t some borrowers if there are genuine reasons & strong proof that money owed will be paid back within a reasnable time frame but, the bulk of borrowers on other platforms realise this is a sign of weakness & take the proverbial liberally, knowing not much will be done until months & months later, if at all.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Mar 29, 2015 23:52:32 GMT
Interest will continue to be paid on all these loans as normal on a monthly basis. : Thank you for the update and for continuing to pay monthly interest on the extended loans. The only question I have about this is "Where is the monthly interest coming from?" Have SS/Lendy negotiated payments from any/all of the borrowers involved? Or is the money coming from SS/Lendy reserves or the money presumably set aside as the SS Provision Fund? Unless cash has been forthcoming from borrowers, the LTVs on these loans are increasing daily, so I'd like to know what the current LTV is on each of the extended loans when all of the accrued fees and interest are included, and how quickly that is increasing with each passing month. If these payments to investors are coming out of SS/Lendy reserves, one can't help but wonder how long that could continue.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,318
Likes: 11,525
|
Post by ilmoro on Mar 30, 2015 0:09:29 GMT
Interest will continue to be paid on all these loans as normal on a monthly basis. : Thank you for the update and for continuing to pay monthly interest on the extended loans. The only question I have about this is "Where is the monthly interest coming from?" Have SS/Lendy negotiated payments from any/all of the borrowers involved? Or is the money coming from SS/Lendy reserves or the money presumably set aside as the SS Provision Fund? Unless cash has been forthcoming from borrowers, the LTVs on these loans are increasing daily, so I'd like to know what the current LTV is on each of the extended loans when all of the accrued fees and interest are included, and how quickly that is increasing with each passing month. If these payments to investors are coming out of SS/Lendy reserves, one can't help but wonder how long that could continue. In the case of PBL6 & SY its being paid by the borrower (see latest update). PBL8/21 its unclear though it would appear to only be a short term delay in refinance. LTV increases by .7% pm due to interest accruing plus unknown fees. Cost 6.5k pm on the two loans. More concerning is the 16k+ it looks like they are likely to have to fork out for PBL19 getting pulled. Then theres the £1700 pm to cover interest on PBL7 until recovery
|
|
Liz
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 1,297
|
Post by Liz on Mar 30, 2015 0:47:46 GMT
You ought to have an Owl on your head.
They are also paying out on PBL 16/17!18, which still about 4 months late, still haven't drawndown.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,318
Likes: 11,525
|
Post by ilmoro on Mar 30, 2015 13:32:10 GMT
You ought to have an Owl on your head. Shhh, the pig gets jealous  I assume this was referring to the lateness(earliness) of the hour rather than may inherent wisdom  They are also paying out on PBL 16/17!18, which still about 4 months late, still haven't drawndown. That'll be another 32k, though I am hoping that those seem to be going ahead & borrower will pick up some of the accrued.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Mar 30, 2015 17:13:14 GMT
savingstream: Thank you for the update and for continuing to pay monthly interest on the extended loans. The only question I have about this is "Where is the monthly interest coming from?" Have SS/Lendy negotiated payments from any/all of the borrowers involved? Or is the money coming from SS/Lendy reserves or the money presumably set aside as the SS Provision Fund? Unless cash has been forthcoming from borrowers, the LTVs on these loans are increasing daily, so I'd like to know what the current LTV is on each of the extended loans when all of the accrued fees and interest are included, and how quickly that is increasing with each passing month. If these payments to investors are coming out of SS/Lendy reserves, one can't help but wonder how long that could continue. In the case of PBL6 & SY its being paid by the borrower (see latest update). Perhaps I'm just blind, or perhaps I've missed a more recent update, but I see nothing in the 27/Mar update that indicates that the borrower has agreed to pay the extra PBL006 and SY interest monthly. Should I be looking somewhere else? More concerning is the 16k+ it looks like they are likely to have to fork out for PBL19 getting pulled. I calculate SS would have to pay out just under £20k if PBL019 cancelled. I see about 3.65 months has elapsed since the loan appeared -- though I can't remember how long it took before it was fully funded -- and there's 0.5% cashback accrued on that loan as well. (SS have said here in the P2PIF that they would pay both accrued interest and any cashback offered if a loan were to be cancelled.) 4.15% of the £480k loan would be £19.9k.
|
|
geoff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 54
Likes: 49
|
Post by geoff on Mar 30, 2015 17:41:51 GMT
In the case of PBL6 & SY its being paid by the borrower (see latest update). Perhaps I'm just blind, or perhaps I've missed a more recent update, but I see nothing in the 27/Mar update that indicates that the borrower has agreed to pay the extra PBL006 and SY interest monthly. Should I be looking somewhere else? From 27/3 update
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Mar 30, 2015 17:58:31 GMT
Perhaps I'm just blind, or perhaps I've missed a more recent update, but I see nothing in the 27/Mar update that indicates that the borrower has agreed to pay the extra PBL006 and SY interest monthly. Should I be looking somewhere else? From 27/3 update : Thanks. I can see what happened now. I was looking only at the section near the start of the update describing the extensions. 
|
|
I assume this was referring to the lateness(earliness) of the hour rather than may inherent wisdom 
