mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 12, 2015 19:20:41 GMT
I wonder if it includes £2.5m for the seconf tranche being laready commited for by underwriters, thus technically the whole £5m almost fully funded The whole £5m is underwritten so that can't be the explanation. I think there's a good chance that it does explain it, because AIUI the total funded is the amount in the hands of lenders/underwriters less the amount that's being offered for sale. So if a £5M loan were to be fully underwritten, and £1M of it was for sale by the underwriters -- with them either wanting to hold the £4M for themselves or simply intending to hold it until they need the money for another project before offering the parts for sale -- then when the loan was released for retail investment the website would show the loan as being £4M funded and £1M available. That also would explain why, on occasion, the amount available to be funded has increased by a large amount -- when underwriter positions are released for retail investment.
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paulg
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Post by paulg on May 12, 2015 20:55:08 GMT
The whole £5m is underwritten so that can't be the explanation. I think there's a good chance that it does explain it, because AIUI the total funded is the amount in the hands of lenders/underwriters less the amount that's being offered for sale. So if a £5M loan were to be fully underwritten, and £1M of it was for sale by the underwriters -- with them either wanting to hold the £4M for themselves or simply intending to hold it until they need the money for another project before offering the parts for sale -- then when the loan was released for retail investment the website would show the loan as being £4M funded and £1M available. That also would explain why, on occasion, the amount available to be funded has increased by a large amount -- when underwriter positions are released for retail investment. It was quite interesting looking at the SS main Loans page whilst this loan was being launched. First I noticed that the the "available funding remaining" went £3m negative without any possible explanation on the page. Then it went £3.5m negative. At this time the loan was still on the "pipeline loans" page without a number. Then the new loan appeared on the loans page WITHOUT a PBL number and the "available funding remaining" went £1.5m positive. Then the new loan acquired the number PBL033. So you have to wonder if the figures for this loan on the Loan page are just a spreadsheet manipulation. Add to the above events the fact that the amount of money supposedly held in the Provision fund instantly increased to take account of the £5m loan despite the conditions of the fund stating that it's fed from moneys from the the loan charges (and the loan has not been drawn down yet and £2.5m of it isn't yet programmed to be), and you have to wonder just how many of the figures presented to us are just spreadsheet manipulations. In any case it was £1.5m released today, not £2.5m with another £100k being added when it fell to about 11% remaining.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on May 12, 2015 21:04:56 GMT
I think there's a good chance that it does explain it, because AIUI the total funded is the amount in the hands of lenders/underwriters less the amount that's being offered for sale. So if a £5M loan were to be fully underwritten, and £1M of it was for sale by the underwriters -- with them either wanting to hold the £4M for themselves or simply intending to hold it until they need the money for another project before offering the parts for sale -- then when the loan was released for retail investment the website would show the loan as being £4M funded and £1M available. That also would explain why, on occasion, the amount available to be funded has increased by a large amount -- when underwriter positions are released for retail investment. It was quite interesting looking at the SS main Loans page whilst this loan was being launched. First I noticed that the the "available funding remaining" went £3m negative without any possible explanation on the page. Then it went £3.5m negative. At this time the loan was still on the "pipeline loans" page without a number. Then the new loan appeared on the loans page WITHOUT a PBL number and the "available funding remaining" went £1.5m positive. Then the new loan acquired the number PBL033. So you have to wonder if the figures for this loan on the Loan page are just a spreadsheet manipulation. Add to the above events the fact that the amount of money supposedly held in the Provision fund instantly increased to take account of the £5m loan despite the conditions of the fund stating that it's fed from moneys from the the loan charges (and the loan has not been drawn down yet and £2.5m of it isn't yet programmed to be), and you have to wonder just how many of the figures presented to us are just spreadsheet manipulations. In any case it was £1.5m released today, not £2.5m with another £100k being added when it fell to about 11% remaining. Well, looks like they need to release the additional £900K soonish - only about £22K left in it as I write. Edit: And there it is, now all gone and indeed, negative.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 12, 2015 21:46:29 GMT
Add to the above events the fact that the amount of money supposedly held in the Provision fund instantly increased to take account of the £5m loan despite the conditions of the fund stating that it's fed from moneys from the the loan charges (and the loan has not been drawn down yet and £2.5m of it isn't yet programmed to be), and you have to wonder just how many of the figures presented to us are just spreadsheet manipulations. I've had similar thoughts about the Provision Fund. Not only does the balance supposedly in it increase the instant a new loan is added to the platform, but the balance in it decreases the instant a loan is repaid. That isn't the way I'd expect such a fund to work. I'd expect any money that goes into the fund to stay there when a loan completes successfully, so as to build up the balance to cover the hopefully rare occasions when a loan goes bad and the provision fund is needed to make up for any shortfall. If the money contributed from loans that turn out to be successful can be withdrawn when those loans are repaid then the funds available for any loan would really be only 2% of the value of that particular loan, which won't go very far if the fund needs to be used.
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tony
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Post by tony on May 12, 2015 22:32:26 GMT
The rapid take up of this sizeable loan illustrates my concerns expressed in another thread. Until SS can come up with a way to restrict the amount that can be part loaned during a certain time period following the time it appears on the platform then the small investor stands little chance of being able to grab a loan part. I have been out since 3 pm and have just returned home at 11 pm only to find that the whole loan has already been funded with many investors taking out very large parts. I do not receive text notification because, being long in the tooth and retired, I am out and about all over the place during the day and not in a position to respond immediately that I am aware of a new listing. Who are these investors who have invested many thousands of Pounds in this loan - are they wealthy individuals or institutions of some sort? Do they sit in front of their computer all day enabling them to buy their loan part within minutes of the loan becoming live?
Has SS got an answer to this problem or are they content to have the small investor fade away so that they can cultivate the big spenders?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on May 12, 2015 22:57:12 GMT
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sqh
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Post by sqh on May 12, 2015 23:35:06 GMT
The rapid take up of this sizeable loan illustrates my concerns expressed in another thread. Until SS can come up with a way to restrict the amount that can be part loaned during a certain time period following the time it appears on the platform then the small investor stands little chance of being able to grab a loan part. I have been out since 3 pm and have just returned home at 11 pm only to find that the whole loan has already been funded with many investors taking out very large parts. I do not receive text notification because, being long in the tooth and retired, I am out and about all over the place during the day and not in a position to respond immediately that I am aware of a new listing. Who are these investors who have invested many thousands of Pounds in this loan - are they wealthy individuals or institutions of some sort? Do they sit in front of their computer all day enabling them to buy their loan part within minutes of the loan becoming live?
Has SS got an answer to this problem or are they content to have the small investor fade away so that they can cultivate the big spenders? Jump on the bandwagon, £400k more has been made available.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 13, 2015 3:46:10 GMT
Who are these investors who have invested many thousands of Pounds in this loan - are they wealthy individuals or institutions of some sort? Do they sit in front of their computer all day enabling them to buy their loan part within minutes of the loan becoming live? Here's another possibility... People/institutions that have the ability to automate the investment process to the point where they can let their 'smart' tools do the job while they are out on the golf course -- or go sailing, or....
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 13, 2015 7:13:53 GMT
Who are these investors who have invested many thousands of Pounds in this loan - are they wealthy individuals or institutions of some sort? Do they sit in front of their computer all day enabling them to buy their loan part within minutes of the loan becoming live? Here's another possibility... People/institutions that have the ability to automate the investment process to the point where they can let their 'smart' tools do the job while they are out on the golf course -- or go sailing, or.... Or people (like me) who find it pretty straightforward to log in and invest via their smartphones when a text notification is received. The SS website isn't great on a phone screen but it's perfectly possible quickly to add funds and invest in a new loan, even if you don't transfer your money across until later. No need to be in front of a PC.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on May 13, 2015 7:25:39 GMT
Add to the above events the fact that the amount of money supposedly held in the Provision fund instantly increased to take account of the £5m loan despite the conditions of the fund stating that it's fed from moneys from the the loan charges (and the loan has not been drawn down yet and £2.5m of it isn't yet programmed to be), and you have to wonder just how many of the figures presented to us are just spreadsheet manipulations. I've had similar thoughts about the Provision Fund. Not only does the balance supposedly in it increase the instant a new loan is added to the platform, but the balance in it decreases the instant a loan is repaid. That isn't the way I'd expect such a fund to work. I'd expect any money that goes into the fund to stay there when a loan completes successfully, so as to build up the balance to cover the hopefully rare occasions when a loan goes bad and the provision fund is needed to make up for any shortfall. If the money contributed from loans that turn out to be successful can be withdrawn when those loans are repaid then the funds available for any loan would really be only 2% of the value of that particular loan, which won't go very far if the fund needs to be used.Re last sentence: Won't it be 2% of all current loans in repayment, rather than just the particular loan? Still insufficient if a big one goes under and it is found that the asset is not worth what was thought.
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tony
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Post by tony on May 13, 2015 7:44:22 GMT
OK - I have managed to get in on this very large loan but my earlier comment still stands. It will always be easy to grab a slice of the larger loans, at least until SS grows even larger and attracts more and more large investors, but the small guys, who are unable to monitor the platform 24/7, will continue to have very little chance to invest in smaller loans thus restricting their opportunity to diversify across the loan book. The same applies to other P2P platforms owing to the phenomenal growth and popularity of P2P investing.
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Post by shadoh on May 13, 2015 8:55:46 GMT
Council website doesn't confirm it has planning permission for the proposed development, therefore, you're lending on 'hope value'.
Website is weird, no contact number or info on the founders. Registration is too easy.
not too sure about this place.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on May 13, 2015 9:04:17 GMT
Council website doesn't confirm it has planning permission for the proposed development, therefore, you're lending on 'hope value'. Website is weird, no contact number or info on the founders. Registration is too easy. not too sure about this place. Consent was approved in principle in December by the Planning Committee, subject to formal completion of the S106 agreement (covering affordable housing, transport contributions, etc.). Given the vast uplift in site value with planning consent, it's fair to assume that the S106 will be signed in due course.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on May 13, 2015 9:06:28 GMT
OK - I have managed to get in on this very large loan but my earlier comment still stands. It will always be easy to grab a slice of the larger loans, at least until SS grows even larger and attracts more and more large investors, but the small guys, who are unable to monitor the platform 24/7, will continue to have very little chance to invest in smaller loans thus restricting their opportunity to diversify across the loan book. The same applies to other P2P platforms owing to the phenomenal growth and popularity of P2P investing. P2P investing really isn't like mainstream saving products where you buy and forget. If you want this sort of P2P investment try Wellesley, Asset Capital's Green Account, Zopa, or to a lesser extent RateSetter (I am sure there may be others, but these are the ones I'm aware of). The reality is you need some additional time, to do your due diligence, to keep an eye on your account and loan developments, and to purchase loans in the first place. However, that said you don't need to be there 24/7, if you can make some extra time for P2P just a couple of hours on the odd day or a one or twice a day look will usually be sufficient. I too am a small investor (no chance of me putting a five figure sum, or rarely a four figure one on any one loan), I have been relatively lucky in being in the right place at the right time for most of SS's loan opportunities, but I maintain that the aftermarket is so fluid that it wouldn't take long to build up a diversified loan book with most of SS's loans, and indeed with a bit of time investment that was exactly what I did when I first started investing with them (and those were the days of the gold dust boaty bits!). Just looking at SS's website this morning and only four loans have had nothing on sale in the last two days, and only one has had no parts on sale during May, out of 28 loans.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on May 13, 2015 9:08:10 GMT
Council website doesn't confirm it has planning permission for the proposed development, therefore, you're lending on 'hope value'. Website is weird, no contact number or info on the founders. Registration is too easy. not too sure about this place. You could try starting with this page: savingstream.co.uk/about-us for more information. (If you wish to discuss your unsureness further, perhaps it would be better to add to this recent thread p2pindependentforum.com/thread/2639/convinced, which you might also find interesting, rather than have it lost within this PBL033 specific thread).
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