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Post by westonkevRS on Jun 24, 2015 16:22:09 GMT
At 8.40 the borrower offer is still there but down to 48k ish. Last matched at 6% at 8.25. there is over 100k on offer at 6% and quite a bit under 6%. I'm confused. Kev, when jonah reported that he saw the Last Matched Rate at 6% at 8.25am on 20/06/15, am I right in thinking this was part of the display glitch? If this is not the case and it was accurate, should my money being offered at 5.9% not have been fully matched before matches at 6% were appearing? The 'Last Matched Rate' is when a loan has been fully formed (i.e. when accepted and matched to lender money). Normally this occurs around 20 minutes after a borrower has accepted his offer. When a large loan is "forced filled" and has the "display glitch" by over staying it's welcome as a borrower offer, this does NOT impact the 'Last Matched Rate' statistics. The 'Last matched Rate' for the large loan would have been correctly reported when the loan was filled prior to the 20th. The specific large loan that appeared as the " reporting glitch" within the market as a borrower order 24 hours later is correctly reported on our database as having a "last matched" date prior to the 19th June, it wasn't the loan reported on 8.25am of the 20th June. There were two 3-year loan orders matched at exactly 8.25am of the 20th June, and one of these was a match at 6.0% (the other was 5.9%). So it was probably one of these two loan matches viewed by Jonah. The matches before were generally at 6.0% and reducing thereafter to 5.8% or 5.9%. So your money at 6.0% will only have been matched if it was at the front of the queue, because after the 6.0% nibbles reported around 08:25 (so actually accepted by the borrower around 08:00am) the rate dropped slightly. @ westonkevRS
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 24, 2015 17:15:27 GMT
Kev, when jonah reported that he saw the Last Matched Rate at 6% at 8.25am on 20/06/15, am I right in thinking this was part of the display glitch? If this is not the case and it was accurate, should my money being offered at 5.9% not have been fully matched before matches at 6% were appearing? The 'Last Matched Rate' is when a loan has been fully formed (i.e. when accepted and matched to lender money). Normally this occurs around 20 minutes after a borrower has accepted his offer. When a large loan is "forced filled" and has the "display glitch" by over staying it's welcome as a borrower offer, this does NOT impact the 'Last Matched Rate' statistics. The 'Last matched Rate' for the large loan would have been correctly reported when the loan was filled prior to the 20th. The specific large loan that appeared as the " reporting glitch" within the market as a borrower order 24 hours later is correctly reported on our database as having a "last matched" date prior to the 19th June, it wasn't the loan reported on 8.25am of the 20th June. There were two 3-year loan orders matched at exactly 8.25am of the 20th June, and one of these was a match at 6.0% (the other was 5.9%). So it was probably one of these two loan matches viewed by Jonah. The matches before were generally at 6.0% and reducing thereafter to 5.8% or 5.9%. So your money at 6.0% will only have been matched if it was at the front of the queue, because after the 6.0% nibbles reported around 08:25 (so actually accepted by the borrower around 08:00am) the rate dropped slightly. @ westonkevRSKev - that is exactly my point. My money was on at 5.9% (as was jonah's) and it was not matched. However you have just confirmed that there was a match at 6% at 8.25am. Should our money not have been fully matched at 5.9% before the 6% matches began? Perhaps it is a different glitch or perhaps I imagined what happened. I'm prepared to accept either eventuality but would like to know. If I imagined it, then I will chalk it up to old age and make sure I get a screenshot if it ever happens again.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jun 24, 2015 18:36:51 GMT
Full disclosure... The numbers I saw and quoted were what was on my screen when I logged on at that time. I didn't actually have any money offered and decided not to put any on at that time due not not being able to work out the appropriate rate to offer. I've since had two matches I'm pretty happy with though
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Post by westonkevRS on Jun 24, 2015 20:18:38 GMT
There were two 3-year loan orders matched at exactly 8.25am of the 20th June, and one of these was a match at 6.0% (the other was 5.9%). So it was probably one of these two loan matches viewed by Jonah. The matches before were generally at 6.0% and reducing thereafter to 5.8% or 5.9%. So your money at 6.0% will only have been matched if it was at the front of the queue, because after the 6.0% nibbles reported around 08:25 (so actually accepted by the borrower around 08:00am) the rate dropped slightly. @ westonkevRSKev - that is exactly my point. My money was on at 5.9% (as was jonah's) and it was not matched. However you have just confirmed that there was a match at 6% at 8.25am. Should our money not have been fully matched at 5.9% before the 6% matches began? locutus you should never have to take screen snaps, if the system doesn't do as it is expected we have a good audit trail. It just needs a nice summer's evening to trawl through the data... .... bvt I couldn't work out why another order at 6.0% placed after yours on 5.9% was given priority. This other preferred order was attached to a large loan with a "display glitch" but I don't think this is the issue. I've given it my best shot but I need to talk to the CTO and work out exactly what the system is doing.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 24, 2015 21:11:44 GMT
Thanks Kev. I appreciate you taking the time and effort to look into this. Hopefully, it is a case of finding when I made the offer of 5.9% and checking no matches were made at 6% before my offer was fully lent.
You might find a small bug in the system or it might be a case of me not paying enough attention and human error. I'm interested to see where it leads and happy to accept whatever the outcome is.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jul 2, 2015 10:21:12 GMT
All, I feel an update is due. Kev and I have been discussing the issue privately through the messaging system on the forum. Kev - I appreciate your help and the time you have spent on this to date.
It has now been confirmed that at least one instance of an offer at 6% was indeed matched before my own offer at 5.9%. This particular example is for a small amount but I have noticed this behaviour in the past but never bothered to investigate.
I would be surprised if I was the only customer affected by this. To me, this indicates a fundamental flaw in the matching algorithm and does not result in a fair market.
I have escalated the issue with RS customer services and when I hear back, I will provide a response here.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 2, 2015 14:45:19 GMT
It has now been confirmed that at least one instance of an offer at 6% was indeed matched before my own offer at 5.9%. Although this is indeed very odd, what I find even stranger is that you ever got matched. One would assume that if you were somehow "hidden", that would have always remained the case. I wonder if your money got tied into a loan that was never drawn down and the funds returned to their place in the queue (but after the other loan had completed).
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Post by westonkevRS on Jul 2, 2015 16:09:20 GMT
The official IT investigation has completed. This was caused by a very large loan order where (as previously explained in the thread) due to the number of "matches" required a time out can occur. This causes the matching to be halted. The database time out is an important protection to ensure that the system does not become locked. When filling a loan the order rate is changed to the HIGHEST value needed to fill it at the start of the matching process (i.e. the code has determined how high up the lender offer it has to go). It then matches from the lowest to the highest. But when it timed out there were still funds unmatched in lender orders at a lower rate than the new rate of the large loan order. So this meant that the market was in a unusual state as there was an open borrower order at a higher rate than the lowest lender rates on the market. The system would remain in this state until a new order is placed or existing order rate changes. Before this loan matching was re-started a new lender order was placed in the market at a higher rate than existing lender orders, a case of unlucky timing. This case an unfortunate sequence of events has resulted in this outcome. It has not happened before. There is an IT change planned so this will not happen again. There is nothing wrong with the “matching algorithm”. @ westonkevRSlink.ratesetter.com/8Ls46js www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=19236219
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 3, 2015 7:50:59 GMT
The official IT investigation has completed. Kev, thanks for the reply. So what you're saying is £500K loan required £250K lender offers at 5.9 £200K lender offers at 6.0 £100K lender offers at 6.1 System identifies that all of the 5.9, all of the 6.0 and some of the 6.1 is required so puts the borrower order on at 6.1. In this case, before completing the order, it timed out leaving some of the expected matches unfilled and as a consequence of that, the loan too was unfilled. The status quo then remains until the next matching process begins when the missed 5.9 orders would get picked up. If my summary is correct, the only strange part is why the 6.1 matching occurs before the 5.9. You would expect it to run in order so if it did time out, it would be the higher reates (and therefore no problem) left behind.
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Post by westonkevRS on Jul 3, 2015 12:22:21 GMT
The official IT investigation has completed. Kev, thanks for the reply. So what you're saying is £500K loan required £250K lender offers at 5.9 £200K lender offers at 6.0 £100K lender offers at 6.1 System identifies that all of the 5.9, all of the 6.0 and some of the 6.1 is required so puts the borrower order on at 6.1. In this case, before completing the order, it timed out leaving some of the expected matches unfilled and as a consequence of that, the loan too was unfilled. The status quo then remains until the next matching process begins when the missed 5.9 orders would get picked up. If my summary is correct, the only strange part is why the 6.1 matching occurs before the 5.9. You would expect it to run in order so if it did time out, it would be the higher reates (and therefore no problem) left behind. You understanding is the same as mine. I don't know why it was coded that way, but the system wasn't really designed to match such large orders. Hence why a change is being made to this "feature" to run differently. Also the system would never have previously had to worry about new orders being inserted in the middle of an old order, because matching never timed out. @ westonkevRS
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Jul 4, 2015 11:45:53 GMT
I don't know why it was coded that way, Oops thought I was on the Thincats forum for a minute
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