twoheads
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Programming
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Post by twoheads on Feb 4, 2017 10:28:16 GMT
Could test the PF?
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jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Feb 4, 2017 10:42:22 GMT
Negotiating? Sounds like a return of less than 100% of capital might happen. I don't own this loan, but if I did I would be strongly considering putting it on the SM now. There are a number of loan comments that have introduced 'negotiating' into the comments including all the Gloucester loans. My take on that is that SS have produced a settlement figure being principal, any interest that the borrower has not covered to date plus SS own charges which we know can be significant and the borrower is attempting to reduce that figure. SS clearly have a lot of wiggle room on their charges, but if they accept a figure less than the principal IMHO as they have not defaulted these loans they are obliged to repay our loans in full and make up any difference from either their own funds or from the PF.
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Post by dualinvestor on Feb 4, 2017 11:22:46 GMT
Perhaps savingstream would like to comment on this notice in the London Gazette of 31 January? Appointment of Administrators In the High Court of Justice, Chancery Division Companies Court No **** of 2017 I*** P**** H***** LIMITED Compared to the update We have received a cash sum in part repayment of this loan which we will pay to investors next week. Regarding the rest, the borrower/owner has offered us a settlement figure which we are negotiating. We are receiving monthly interest in the interim. |
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 4, 2017 11:33:15 GMT
Perhaps savingstream would like to comment on this notice in the London Gazette of 31 January? Appointment of Administrators In the High Court of Justice, Chancery Division Companies Court No **** of 2017 I*** P**** H***** LIMITED Compared to the update We have received a cash sum in part repayment of this loan which we will pay to investors next week. Regarding the rest, the borrower/owner has offered us a settlement figure which we are negotiating. We are receiving monthly interest in the interim. I never noticed that - would have posted something days ago if I'd had seen it... > Why no mention of the administration for crying out loud - what do SS consider a defaulted loan> SS should have defaulted, admin appointed and had the hotel on the market months ago > There has been no sign of any listing online > SS should as least try and look for potential buyers before defaulting 
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 4, 2017 11:53:32 GMT
SS have had ample opportunity in the last four days following the administration action and comments on this forum inviting them to update us properly, either here or privately by email (see 1 Feb).
Therefore SS has made the conscious decision NOT to inform lenders of the actual position with this loan. Assuming this attitude towards transparency is the norm for this platform, on all other loans I think lenders should be especially wary of any update/news/spin which emanates from the management. All Paul can do is "create" an "update" on what they tell him.
Spin your way out of that Mr Mandelson.
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Post by dualinvestor on Feb 4, 2017 12:23:15 GMT
Mind you this is not the first time there has been misinformation about this loan. Six months ago it was going to be refinanced by Cambridge and Counties Building Society that does not exist.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 4, 2017 13:26:59 GMT
Mind you this is not the first time there has been misinformation about this loan. Six months ago it was going to be refinanced by Cambridge and Counties Building Society that does not exist. Arguably that's an insignificant error, presuming that a reference to Cambridge & Counties Bank was intended. (I think it was SS who recently referred to Halifax as a building society, but this one is worse as Cambridge and Counties never was a building society.)
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 4, 2017 13:33:17 GMT
Mind you this is not the first time there has been misinformation about this loan. Six months ago it was going to be refinanced by Cambridge and Counties Building Society that does not exist. Arguably that's an insignificant error, presuming that a reference to Cambridge & Counties Bank was intended. (I think it was SS who recently referred to Halifax as a building society, but this one is worse as Cambridge and Counties never was a building society.) Well known discrepancy, and shows that SS really wasn't on top of the situation, presumably relying on the information from the broker This whole event, along with the Gloucestershire loans and several others shows to me that SS need to be far more aggressive with borrowers; as soon as interest stops (+ a grace period of, let's say, a month) SS need to look at sending in the receiver. It seems madness that SS dip into platform profits letting the borrower fob them off with excuses. Just look at the timeline for PBL 040 updates - absolute joke... Barclays has made an offer to refinance > Expected repayment > expecting refinance (from non-existing BS) > arranging another loan from friends and family > sale is to complete within 3 weeks > Supposedly refinancing this week > Borrower is working with us to sell the property > The customer is working towards a refinance 
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PBL 040
Feb 4, 2017 13:53:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by dualinvestor on Feb 4, 2017 13:53:01 GMT
Mind you this is not the first time there has been misinformation about this loan. Six months ago it was going to be refinanced by Cambridge and Counties Building Society that does not exist. Arguably that's an insignificant error, presuming that a reference to Cambridge & Counties Bank was intended. (I think it was SS who recently referred to Halifax as a building society, but this one is worse as Cambridge and Counties never was a building society.) To be frank that is a big presumption we or, I suspect, Savingstream do not know whether the borrower had approached the said bank at all, or anyone else.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 4, 2017 15:39:56 GMT
Arguably that's an insignificant error, presuming that a reference to Cambridge & Counties Bank was intended. (I think it was SS who recently referred to Halifax as a building society, but this one is worse as Cambridge and Counties never was a building society.) To be frank that is a big presumption we or, I suspect, Savingstream do not know whether the borrower had approached the said bank at all, or anyone else. I questioned this months back when I knew that two attempts (i.e Cam Bank and another front line P2P) to refinance had been turned down. SS did not respond, or say anything for many days, so I have to assume they did not know (therefore they were relying on [and accepting] occasional information from an intermediary). It all points towards the suspicion that SS has very a tenuous grip on what is actually happening in many of the overdue loans until enforcement is actually instigated. Focus the borrower's mind eh? Mmmm.
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Post by harryvederci on Feb 4, 2017 15:54:54 GMT
I wonder how many of these loans are so overgeared that there is no chance of remortgaging out.
This one was valued at £1.3m but only at £800k for a sale within 3 months which is a massive 40% discount of £500,000, defies the common sense test!
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twoheads
Member of DD Central
Programming
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Post by twoheads on Feb 5, 2017 22:31:09 GMT
This one (PBL040) now has 4% available on the SM. I would have expected much more in the light of the most recent, much talked about, updates from SS.
However, interestingly, even PBL020 (in default, even according to SS) has only 4.6% available on the SM.
I can only assume that investors would rather stay on board the sinking ship, in the hope of earning some interest and being repaid some proportion of their investment, rather than attempt to sell it on the SM.
I just don't get it.
I think I have a lot to learn about how investors react to defaults and potential defaults in P2P.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 5, 2017 23:01:42 GMT
This one (PBL040) now has 4% available on the SM. I would have expected much more in the light of the most recent, much talked about, updates from SS.
However, interestingly, even PBL020 (in default, even according to SS) has only 4.6% available on the SM.
I can only assume that investors would rather stay on board the sinking ship, in the hope of earning some interest and being repaid some proportion of their investment, rather than attempt to sell it on the SM.
I just don't get it.
I think I have a lot to learn about how investors react to defaults and potential defaults in P2P. ISTM that trading on PBL040 is quiet today because the SM has bloated and it's a weekend (I've noticed this on previous weekends - trading slows down). My guess is we'll start to see investors investing in PBL040 again tomorrow. The situation is the same with several other loans - 8 with receivers assisting, 1 in receivership, 2 in administration and 2 further bad loans. 10 of these are unlikely to return full capital and nobody knows how the Provision Fund is going to work. All of these are being traded apart from the big red box (which seems to be the only definitive way to alert all investors that a loan is bad). The marketplace is not reacting to localised market conditions, a benefit to those who prefer to keep a closer eye on their money. Just seems there are investors simply chucking money at the system blinded by the high rates...
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markdirac
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Post by markdirac on Feb 6, 2017 14:09:34 GMT
This one (PBL040) now has 4% available on the SM. I would have expected much more in the light of the most recent, much talked about, updates from SS.
However, interestingly, even PBL020 (in default, even according to SS) has only 4.6% available on the SM.
I can only assume that investors would rather stay on board the sinking ship, in the hope of earning some interest and being repaid some proportion of their investment, rather than attempt to sell it on the SM.
I just don't get it.
I think I have a lot to learn about how investors react to defaults and potential defaults in P2P. I believe there's something going on which we do not know about, or do not understand, or are not party to, with regard to ease of selling of distressed loans. I cannot believe that it is explained only by carelessness or otherwise-busyness or stupidity or risk-not-adverseness on the part of other lenders. I can only think that SS are helping to maintain 2ndary market liquidity somehow. After all, the excellent simplicity and reliability of SS's 2ndary market is one of the attractions of SS. And we can see that SS, for whatever reason, are surprisingly reluctant to announce another default. Does loan liquidity or lack of defaults assist with FCA full approval perhaps? Or HMRC ISA approval? I don't know. Puzzled.
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moist
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Post by moist on Feb 6, 2017 15:49:09 GMT
reply received........
'The latest update is correct.
The borrower on PBL040 is not in liquidation and is working with our insolvency practitioners with a view to us achieving a satisfactory outcome.
'
Kind regards,
Customer Services Team
Saving Stream
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