sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jul 29, 2015 6:50:28 GMT
How sustainable will that be given the recent gov announcements about reducing "green" / sustainable etc energy subsidies? I suspect the installation costs will drop in line with the govt subsidies. That's what happened with solar PV. I was quoted £17k for a 4kw system in 2010 with a subsidy of 43p/kw, and £6k in 2013 when the subsidy had dropped to 17p/kw.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jul 29, 2015 7:27:04 GMT
I would suggest investing in Assetz Capital Green Energy Income Account (GEIA). It offers a 7% return with asset backed security and a provision fund. That's something I reject on environmental grounds. Among other things it funds onshore wind turbines. Not that the return is enough to be very interesting either, with 10%+ readily available for asset-backed investing. You might like to join this free online course. Started this week and runs for 4 weeks. You should find plenty of opportunities to vent your spleen. www.futurelearn.com/courses/elements-renewable-energies
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james
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Post by james on Jul 29, 2015 7:39:59 GMT
I already know of that course. I'm simply not interested in funding such environmentally harmful power sources. There are plenty of alternatives around, presumably many of them covered by that course, like offshore wind out of sight of land, solar, wave, tidal and nuclear.
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Post by hugoarchover on Jul 29, 2015 12:01:25 GMT
Hi redandblackUmm "The ones I like are Archover, which has an insurance cover on everything except fraud..."Firstly, I wonder what definition of fraud the insurance company likes to use ? Secondly, with no asset backed security and no DG or PG it's all or nothing. I'd want a rate of 15%+. On a more constructive note, I would suggest investing in Assetz Capital Green Energy Income Account (GEIA). It offers a 7% return with asset backed security and a provision fund. My understanding is it offers the advantages of liquidity and automatic reinvestment of interest, allowing access to your money at short notice. I don't use this fund, but I do invest in the underlying investments without the provision fund. Hi redandblackHave to correct you sqhArchOver’s use of insurance is only one element of the investor security we offer. We also use ‘asset backed’ security. The asset we use is the nearest thing to cash any company has - its Account Receivable (Debtor Book). We take a first floating charge lodged at companies over the Accounts Receivable of the company and we monitor that asset monthly (no other platform does this). In addition, the insurance company are monitoring risk in real-time on our Borrower’s customers and their industry as a whole as part of the insurance cover. Personal Guarantees You should both research PGs. For a start If a platform is taking assets outside of the business it is tantamount to admitting the business is unlikely to support the loan, which questions the quality of the original credit analysis, ongoing monitoring and the real value other securities used. PGs are also difficult to enforce; even major banks are currently very reluctant to enforce in case the courts start setting precedents against their agreements. You should also be aware there is a whole industry grown up around ‘getting borrowers off’ the PGs that have been used by various platforms – one of the leaders in this file settles at just 29% of the original PGs (see: www.innatewisdom.co.uk/what-we-do/personal-guarantees.php)
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markr
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Post by markr on Jul 29, 2015 12:02:07 GMT
I suspect the installation costs will drop in line with the govt subsidies. That's what happened with solar PV. I was quoted £17k for a 4kw system in 2010 with a subsidy of 43p/kw, and £6k in 2013 when the subsidy had dropped to 17p/kw. In that time period there was massive oversupply of the raw materials for panels, particularly solar glass. Automotive and architectural glass demand was in decline, and US and EU glass makers converted a number of lines to solar production. At the same time, Chinese manufacturers began dumping their glass in Europe and the US. As a result, at the end of 2013, the EU imposed 40+% anti-dumping tarriffs on Chinese solar glass, so a quote in 2014 would likely be higher again. So, while the subsidy reduction may have been a factor, there were definitely other factors that would have contributed to the price reduction.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Jul 29, 2015 12:14:17 GMT
I suspect the installation costs will drop in line with the govt subsidies. That's what happened with solar PV. I was quoted £17k for a 4kw system in 2010 with a subsidy of 43p/kw, and £6k in 2013 when the subsidy had dropped to 17p/kw. In that time period there was massive oversupply of the raw materials for panels, particularly solar glass. Automotive and architectural glass demand was in decline, and US and EU glass makers converted a number of lines to solar production. At the same time, Chinese manufacturers began dumping their glass in Europe and the US. As a result, at the end of 2013, the EU imposed 40+% anti-dumping tarriffs on Chinese solar glass, so a quote in 2014 would likely be higher again. So, while the subsidy reduction may have been a factor, there were definitely other factors that would have contributed to the price reduction. I paid just under £6K for a 4KW system with Hyundai poly panels in 2012,when the FIT was 18.5p/kw. It delivers £700 per year in FIT grant and has reduced my electricity cost by around £400 per year.(even with the  weather in Liverpool).  P.S. my total FIT is now around 20p/kw.
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pom
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Post by pom on Jul 29, 2015 12:28:24 GMT
..and I'm paying just over 6k for 4kw to be installed next week..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 12:33:06 GMT
Coursera does a very good MOOC out of Champagne-Illinois on Environmental issues. Onshore wind farms sound a pretty good deal, have £15k invested in them. Environmentally the issue is about energy storage which is sub par in the UK (actually its about getting used to the idea of short term energy concerns rather than long term energy concerns, though the area of demand management is fascinating) . Storage solution is in storage of electricity as H2 in gas system (see ITM plc), connection into the Norwegian hydro system (new power cable started being laid this summer) and even the slightly barking compressed air in salt chambers (one going into NI starting this year). Meanwhile Teslas might also offer up some extra storage opportunities  . Demand management, offers real opportunities, for instance we have now moved as a country to high energy consumption in the evening (when I was a lad the peak was 8am until 4pm), this peak and the danger of over demand can actually be managed by offering up sub 220V to select customers. That might, for example make the kettle boil a tiny bit slower and the street lights be a tiny bit darker, but would ensure that the peak energy consumption is not reliant on diesel and coal brought in at high cost. All very interesting, but bring on land turbines for me. BTW, earning 13% on my solar.... but only 10% on my Turbines, while Drax went south in the latest Conservative announcement (now trading at 280p with assets worth 315p if you are interested). |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jul 29, 2015 18:29:33 GMT
How sustainable will that be given the recent gov announcements about reducing "green" / sustainable etc energy subsidies? It might have an effect on future investments, but I'd expect very little impact on systems already up and running since most of their costs are 'sunk' and the revenue received still will exceed the marginal cost of continuing to produce.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jul 29, 2015 19:59:21 GMT
In that time period there was massive oversupply of the raw materials for panels, particularly solar glass. Automotive and architectural glass demand was in decline, and US and EU glass makers converted a number of lines to solar production. At the same time, Chinese manufacturers began dumping their glass in Europe and the US. As a result, at the end of 2013, the EU imposed 40+% anti-dumping tarriffs on Chinese solar glass, so a quote in 2014 would likely be higher again. So, while the subsidy reduction may have been a factor, there were definitely other factors that would have contributed to the price reduction. I paid just under £6K for a 4KW system with Hyundai poly panels in 2012,when the FIT was 18.5p/kw. It delivers £700 per year in FIT grant and has reduced my electricity cost by around £400 per year.(even with the weather in Liverpool). Yeah, but on sunny days your panels get extra reflections from shiny shell suits.
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james
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Post by james on Jul 29, 2015 20:01:30 GMT
Onshore wind farms ... Environmentally the issue is about energy storage which is sub par in the UK Well, that's one of the issues. The one that bothers me most, though, is the severe adverse visual impact of them, shaped in part by seeing the hills around California's Altamont Pass looking like pincushions due to all of the windmills there and their requirement to be in high and hence highly visible locations. Since seeing that environmental mess some fifteen years ago I've not been a fan of onshore wind power. With possible exceptions for truly remote locations with no visitor population at all. Aesthetics aside, if any seaside or other resort sprouts visible windmills it's not going to see my business. I don't really go to resorts to look at power plants and prefer actual natural beauty. No idea whether wind farms are currently taxed or otherwise obliged to compensate for these economic losses to unrelated businesses, though. Probably not, in just the way that fossil sources don't yet get charged for their full lifecycle environmental cost. Demand management, offers real opportunities, for instance we have now moved as a country to high energy consumption in the evening (when I was a lad the peak was 8am until 4pm), this peak and the danger of over demand can actually be managed by offering up sub 220V to select customers. That might, for example make the kettle boil a tiny bit slower and the street lights be a tiny bit darker, but would ensure that the peak energy consumption is not reliant on diesel and coal brought in at high cost. Yes, demand management is a really interesting area. Minimal effective cost for consumers to have say refrigeration equipment turned off for a while, though limited scope for that to cut out the TV-related spikes. It might be a particularly interesting area for the local distribution networks to get into to reduce their triad charges, something that's already a very active area for things like running diesel generators to save money. For those who don't know about them, triad charges are an extra charge based on transmission demand during the three busiest half hour intervals during a charging period - a charge for sizing the grid to handle the peak demand. I'm not sure that sub 220V is a good idea if it goes outside the EU voltage tolerance standard, particularly given that the UK system really still delivers 240V give or take the normal operational margins based on things like distance from substation. Since the standard requires 230 volts +10% - 6% (216.2-253 volts) there's not that much margin below 220 volts anyway. Still, selected high use customers might be able to handle less. Drax went south in the latest Conservative announcement (now trading at 280p with assets worth 315p if you are interested). I don't really trust the asset value of Drax. Too much is likely to depend on being able to continue to generate rather than value after closure and demolition. As we've seen, fickle government policy can interfere greatly with such plans.
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Post by ablrateandy on Jul 30, 2015 0:34:36 GMT
I drove through San Gorgonio Pass Wind Farm last year and it is jaw dropping. I didn't know whether to be mortified at the scale or marvel at it! It's a fairly dull bit of desert though so I ended up veering towards the latter just because, well, it wasn't in my back yard! Generally though I am not a fan of onshore wind turbines.
Triads and generation are very interesting. My brother used to work for an unnamed (!) UK based aircraft engine manufacturer with a stock surplus, whose clients used to make a fortune by calling themselves a power station and just switching on the engines during the relevant periods to get a subsidy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 9:25:19 GMT
Drax went south in the latest Conservative announcement (now trading at 280p with assets worth 315p if you are interested). I don't really trust the asset value of Drax. Too much is likely to depend on being able to continue to generate rather than value after closure and demolition. As we've seen, fickle government policy can interfere greatly with such plans. With Drax making up 7% of UK energy and possible sub 0.5% excess energy in the UK this winter the chance of Drax being closed in next 20 years is close to h@@@ freezing over. Since Utilities in the UK tend towards dull accountants I suspect the assets are on line right. The whole issue of Drax SP is down to how green friendly the gov is. Right now the chancellor (a politicians politician, (I can almost see a Singapore management style coming along)) would rather the planet turned into a ball of fire rather than let the socialists back in. Hence, the Drax chair is pushing at a closed door to get any more tax breaks, so I'm not buying for SP growth. However the chair has shown a good imagination so I can see her either 1) starting to push carbon capture (her latest technology) or 2) up the divi. It is the latter that interests me and of course the asset value puts a nice floor to the price. Lowering the voltage is gaining great interest in Parliament, Mrs Bobo was there a few days ago when the concept was explained to the drones (and new drones) again.
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weather in Liverpool). 
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