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Post by Financial Thing on Aug 12, 2015 13:44:58 GMT
Whilst the obvious risk with that platform is NH herself (a marmite persona), and I suspect that factor alone puts off most forumites, there must be more reasons why Money&Co doesn't get a mention on threads such as this.
That's being a bit rough on Marmite
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Aug 12, 2015 13:48:28 GMT
That's being a bit rough on Marmite ........... oldgrumpy likes this .............. OG likes Marmite, too!
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Post by Financial Thing on Aug 12, 2015 14:04:50 GMT
oldgrumpy There were reported OG sightings at this beach over the weekend
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Aug 12, 2015 14:11:22 GMT
oldgrumpy There were reported OG sightings at this beach over the weekend Love the Speedos,but what's the surf board hiding?
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mv
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Post by mv on Aug 12, 2015 14:24:10 GMT
Another platform we rarely discuss on this forum is Money&Co, the Nicola Horlick fronted platform. Whilst the obvious risk with that platform is NH herself (a marmite persona), and I suspect that factor alone puts off most forumites, there must be more reasons why Money&Co doesn't get a mention on threads such as this.
Agreed. M&C invested heavily in a computer system that could handle literally millions of users but has less deal flow per month than a bad day at FC. The loans take ages to fill (if they even manage to) and draw down. They also spent heavily on marketing and have had an unjustifiably large amount of mentions in the daily mail (spits) as a result of NH. As a result they have been haemorrhaging money since inception. I ended up investing a small amount there after naively following a sponsored link from 4thway. Thankfully I sold it on the SM without difficulty.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Aug 12, 2015 14:32:04 GMT
Another platform we rarely discuss on this forum is Money&Co, the Nicola Horlick fronted platform. Whilst the obvious risk with that platform is NH herself (a marmite persona), and I suspect that factor alone puts off most forumites, there must be more reasons why Money&Co doesn't get a mention on threads such as this.
Agreed. M&C invested heavily in a computer system that could handle literally millions of users but has less deal flow per month than a bad day at FC. The loans take ages to fill (if they even manage to) and draw down. They also spent heavily on marketing and have had an unjustifiably large amount of mentions in the daily mail (spits) as a result of NH. As a result they have been haemorrhaging money since inception. I ended up investing a small amount there after naively following a sponsored link from 4thway. Thankfully I sold it on the SM without difficulty. Yes,it's like watching paint dry at times.I actually fell asleep once while perusing their site. Still,I suppose that's what Horlicks does for you
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jonbvn
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Post by jonbvn on Aug 12, 2015 17:03:43 GMT
I used to be in FS (from Nov 13), really when it just did P2P pawnbroking. Had a 'marker' position of a few thousand just to keep tabs on them but it just seemed that it wasn't a scalable business proposition without a degree of 'mandate drift'. Sure enough they went for property loans which is a pretty crowded space. I just let the portfolio run off. Didn't take any losses but couldn't see any reason to stay in. The return-risk proposition isn't at all compelling with the exception of the odd loan. I don't know how they are being funded and their volumes are so low (just £10mm in 21 months) so I don't see how that can possibly turn the dial as a business. The costs of staff/real estate/systems/full FCA compliance make businesses like that pretty unviable over the medium-term. Playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't the same thing also apply to MT?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 12, 2015 17:14:59 GMT
I used to be in FS (from Nov 13), really when it just did P2P pawnbroking. Had a 'marker' position of a few thousand just to keep tabs on them but it just seemed that it wasn't a scalable business proposition without a degree of 'mandate drift'. Sure enough they went for property loans which is a pretty crowded space. I just let the portfolio run off. Didn't take any losses but couldn't see any reason to stay in. The return-risk proposition isn't at all compelling with the exception of the odd loan. I don't know how they are being funded and their volumes are so low (just £10mm in 21 months) so I don't see how that can possibly turn the dial as a business. The costs of staff/real estate/systems/full FCA compliance make businesses like that pretty unviable over the medium-term. Playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't the same thing also apply to MT? Ed's costs are chicken feed
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Aug 12, 2015 17:53:22 GMT
I'm surprised FS is 5th. For me SS is 1st then FS. I would be interested to know from others why you have put RS, MT and AC ahead of FS. I have money in RS but it's low rates (the recent cash back and consequential lower returns actually means I am withdrawing from this one at the moment and won't be putting back in until I can get 6+) means it is a lower priority, AC has too many suspended loans and MT insufficient opportunities. Every loan on FS I liked the look of was fully taken up by the time I was able to get online to attempt to get involved with.
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jonbvn
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Post by jonbvn on Aug 12, 2015 19:34:47 GMT
Playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't the same thing also apply to MT? Yes and I have nothing with MT. I have small amounts in both MT & FS. I am trying to increase my MT lending and reduce my FS exposure.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 12, 2015 19:51:10 GMT
In the midst of what turned out to be a non-story from optionstrader Not so much a non-story as risks that were already known and which it is quite sensible to be aware of and consider. It was useful for optionstrader to describe the things that are of concern to optionstrader, just as we all do for assorted platforms, I expect. Another platform we rarely discuss on this forum is Money&Co ... Whilst the obvious risk with that platform is NH herself (a marmite persona), and I suspect that factor alone puts off most forumites, there must be more reasons why Money&Co doesn't get a mention on threads such as this.
" ...: 'You invested in my restaurant...now it's a bar'" told me as much as I need to know about investing in any P2P platforms involving this individual. Sought crowdfunding for one thing (restaurant, "upmarket brasserie in leafy Chiswick"), did something else with the money ("oyster bar in Clapham") instead of returning it and relisting for the new project of a different type . As the story notes "A number of investors ... backed the original plan because the brasserie was local – so they would be able to make use of the discount – and they liked the concept". Changing project and terms to the disadvantage of those already invested is not an inspiring act by the CEO of a P2P firm. Of course I'm also aware of her other preceding adventures. With that history I simply don't trust that she and any project she's involved with as CEO will act as originally described at the time of any investment I might make, because she's already demonstrated what to expect in her similar peer crowdfunding activities. Forget Marmite personality if that exists (and an admirable " Superwoman" personal life in so many ways), I just have to look at the recent business history of the individual concerned. Similarly there's Bondora which has again announced that it is reducing the value of loans that have already been made over many years. Last time it was rerating the apparent risk grading of many existing loans from best on platform (Estonian A 1000 12% interest rate) to mostly not best and a high percentage the worst HR on the platform. So much for resale value of those, which changed from described as best to described as worst prospects. This time around it's changes to the debt collection to eliminate penalties for borrowers, reducing the value of loans in arrears or default, as well as existing loans with any significant default risk. Doing things that significantly change the value of already made loans negatively is not the sort of thing to inspire confidence in a platform. Then there was the matter of introducing lending to under 25s who were "young professionals" but in practice lending to mostly clerks, shop assistance fitters and similar, often with only basic education, not remotely close to being professionally educated even. Then there was the elderly person receiving benefits for a young child who had many loans at the start of the loan process but was described as having a verified income and expenses, who ended up in court with seven digits of unsecured borrowing. In this case the record is such that I do not trust the accuracy of claims made during underwriting, nor do I trust that the platform will not harm the value of existing investments, because I'm aware of at least two substantive cases where I think that the opposite has been done by the platform. Then there's Zopa, which in a loan to me that I initiated partly for investor due diligence around the end of 2008 repeatedly breached the Consumer Credit Act, including overcharging me interest, never getting even one annual loan statement right first try and not even getting pre-loan disclosures right (missing mandatory text and early settlement at 3, 6 and 9 months instead of the legally required 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 way through the loan). Or them not responding for months to that report of the latter issue, continuing to lend, while I didn't consider that I was willing to sign a consumer credit license application when I knew that the lending would not be compliant with the Act at the time of my signing immediately below an affirmation that I would comply. I desire higher standards of proactive legal and regulatory compliance from a platform than I believe have been demonstrated. By way of contrast, there's Mintos that has an established record of buying back loans, or their partners doing so, if even the loan term changes, let alone in the case of defaults, so that people don't end up with even a term they didn't expect at the outset. Or there's Ablrate which while they have a stalled aircraft lending pipeline have continued to pay investors interest-replacement money from the time the currently stalled loan was filled even though it's for far longer than they could initially have anticipated. They have also offered anyone who wants out a way out of the loan. While at times they have been more positive about the loan pipeline in public than turned out to be wise, when it comes to money for existing investments they appear to be getting things right and they have clearly learned to be more cautious about possible future loans and adjusted how they act there. Those two have demonstrated some of the contrasts that exist in the sector. While they might not ultimately last long term, at least investors can see that they are trying to act properly and respect the interests and needs of investors and be fairly optimistic that they would seek a good resolution if they didn't survive. I see a tendency for all platforms to have a honeymoon period, followed at some point later by a growing feeling of disappointment! As samford71 wrote. Sometimes over time a platform will demonstrate positive traits. Sometimes negative. Investors opinions of platforms can be expected to naturally change over time as the company and individuals involved with it demonstrate how they carry out business. A new firm is a blank slate, ready for positive or negative future demonstrations. Platforms can change substantially over time. Investors would do well to diversify and consider the availability of exit routes in case they desire to exit after changes that they consider to be undesirable.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 12, 2015 20:11:02 GMT
Dear moderators, it appears that the platform risks posts, which are interesting and useful, might best be placed into a new topic in this section, with a link to that and a list of all platforms mentioned so far placed in this discussion so that anyone interested can go and read a dedicated discussion of such things.
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Aug 12, 2015 20:15:48 GMT
Thank you james for sharing your experiences, especially of some platforms I've not yet tried. Valuable anecdotes.
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james
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Post by james on Aug 12, 2015 20:21:53 GMT
Thank you james for sharing your experiences, especially of some platforms I've not yet tried. Valuable anecdotes. Just remember to investigate and form your own opinions. While I have mine your opinion of the same events or relative emphasis placed on them vs other things may well differ. I assume that the prinicipals of the platforms I've mentioned would have different opinions of the same events while not disagreeing about the underlying facts. Such is the nature of normal differing human opinion about the same events.
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jonbvn
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Post by jonbvn on Aug 12, 2015 23:36:28 GMT
Thank you james for sharing your experiences, especially of some platforms I've not yet tried. Valuable anecdotes. Just remember to investigate and form your own opinions. While I have mine your opinion of the same events or relative emphasis placed on them vs other things may well differ. I assume that the prinicipals of the platforms I've mentioned would have different opinions of the same events while not disagreeing about the underlying facts. Such is the nature of normal differing human opinion about the same events. Why would anyone base any financial decision on the opinion of a complete stranger on the internet? It is surely legally implicit that nothing posted on these forums can be construed as "financial advice" or a recommendation?
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