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GBBA
Aug 9, 2015 9:14:18 GMT
Post by stuartassetzcapital on Aug 9, 2015 9:14:18 GMT
oldnick - You're asking the IT guy, haven't a clue. In theory the rate of return to lenders could be changed easily, also the minimum rate paid by the loans accepted into the account could be changed very easily and the system would just list any loans that no longer matched the criteria for sale, buying into new loans that meet the new criteria. Whilst that could technically be implemented without issuing a series 2 account I'd be surprised if we did so unless the changes were very small and to the lenders benefit. If we wanted to avoid a series 2 account we could just as easily release a separate investment account at a higher rate. Lenders would then be free to choose between the two with liquidity determining which is the better bet. No good demanding 15% returns if there are no quality borrowers willing to pay it, for example. I think what is really going through my head is that the two fixed interest accounts are priced according to the rates available from AC loans now on the market. How will they be affected by average AC loan rates rising or falling? If the accounts maintain the current target rates, falling rates on new AC loans will squeeze contributions to the Provision Funds, and rising rates overfill them. In the first scenario, of falling rates for new AC loans, you're suggesting that at a certain level those new loans wouldn't offer a high enough margin to feed the PF and would not be included - so the 7% account might decline naturally as the loans it already held were repaid. In the second scenario of rising rates for new AC loans, the PF would reach its target capacity sooner - what then for the extra margin generated? If there aren't many lenders investing through these accounts as well as manually, there may be little immediate pressure for AC to share the excess by raising the target rates of the accounts. Pressure from comparison with competing PF type platforms maybe, but not necessarily from direct comparison with the rate manual investing in AC could achieve. As a future small shareholder in AC I don't have a problem here, as profits for the company are good news, and I'm free to invest manually or automatically as I see fit. It's just that the 'what ifs' always go through my mind when a constraint or pivot point is applied to a system. Yes these are some of the things that go through our heads too. Here is a new one. If an old account had say 7% rate and new lending levels were a bit higher now but the old account had a loan pool that was say just 2 years average duration vs the new account at say 4 years then that would justify a lower coupon and perhaps a premium on exit that reduced the rate to say 6% to reflect the shorrter term risk but made a capital profit for those exiting. The market will find its levels we feel, all we need to do is provide the right tools.
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shimself
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GBBA
Aug 9, 2015 11:00:13 GMT
Post by shimself on Aug 9, 2015 11:00:13 GMT
Is there some way of establishing what my holdings actually are, I really can't be bothered wading through bought 0.02 sold 1.00 etc? I built a spreadsheet for my partners account that produces headline amounts per loan. 'Dumping' sheet for the downloaded info and then word search for loan name. Only took 20 minutes to set up.
OK it will 'fall over' if a new loan is added but that takes seconds to add a new column and 'IF' statement.
Why do I need this info? Well I have manual investments in some of the loans (personal and business) and IMO whilst knowing total loan exposure is 'information', for liquidity purposes it is good to know what loans are being invested in by the GBBA.
I'm rather hoping the Chris will manage to do much the same thing
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Aug 10, 2015 8:23:30 GMT
I built a spreadsheet for my partners account that produces headline amounts per loan. 'Dumping' sheet for the downloaded info and then word search for loan name. Only took 20 minutes to set up.
OK it will 'fall over' if a new loan is added but that takes seconds to add a new column and 'IF' statement.
Why do I need this info? Well I have manual investments in some of the loans (personal and business) and IMO whilst knowing total loan exposure is 'information', for liquidity purposes it is good to know what loans are being invested in by the GBBA.
I'm rather hoping the Chris will manage to do much the same thing Indeed. Both the GBBA and the MLIA would benefit from a "loan holdings" screen summarising how much of each loan is held. I'm hoping chris is thinking along these lines once the next major release / account introduction is out of the way.
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GBBA
Aug 10, 2015 9:00:28 GMT
Post by chris on Aug 10, 2015 9:00:28 GMT
I'm rather hoping the Chris will manage to do much the same thing Indeed. Both the GBBA and the MLIA would benefit from a "loan holdings" screen summarising how much of each loan is held. I'm hoping chris is thinking along these lines once the next major release / account introduction is out of the way. As I've said I'm open to it but need to persuade others in the business who feel the accounts should be "black box" style. As we bring in more accounts, and with the changes I'm making with the next release, I think it's more likely to happen but I can't make any promises yet.
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am
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GBBA
Aug 10, 2015 14:08:48 GMT
Post by am on Aug 10, 2015 14:08:48 GMT
Indeed. Both the GBBA and the MLIA would benefit from a "loan holdings" screen summarising how much of each loan is held. I'm hoping chris is thinking along these lines once the next major release / account introduction is out of the way. As I've said I'm open to it but need to persuade others in the business who feel the accounts should be "black box" style. As we bring in more accounts, and with the changes I'm making with the next release, I think it's more likely to happen but I can't make any promises yet. But the accounts aren't black box - they're just obfuscated. In a black box account you'd buy units in the account, and get paid 7% on those units, and you wouldn't have holdings in particular loans. As implemented one does have holdings in particular loans, it's just that it's not easy to tell what they are. One implication of this is that if a constituent loan gets frozen different lenders will get different proportions of their accounts frozen (i.e. they can't extract the capital from the account); in a true black box money could be extracted until there's nothing left in the account as a whole but frozen loans, and hopefully we would never get to that point. (Depending on how the accounts were operated, it might mean that the value of the frozen loans exceeded the provision fund.)
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duck
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GBBA
Aug 10, 2015 14:24:52 GMT
Post by duck on Aug 10, 2015 14:24:52 GMT
Whilst I agree that the accounts are not totally 'Black Box', I'm a great believer in producing the information that I need ...... and in this case it took very little effort.
I download all transactions from MLIA (personal and business accounts) as a matter of course, so updating another sheet takes another minute (literally) and I have the information that I want/need including the relationship with the other accounts.
My view is that whilst I have no doubt Chris could implement another change, how long before 'it's not quite what I wanted, can we have xxxxx added' is heard?
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jonah
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GBBA
Aug 10, 2015 20:01:03 GMT
Post by jonah on Aug 10, 2015 20:01:03 GMT
Whilst I agree that the accounts are not totally 'Black Box', I'm a great believer in producing the information that I need ...... and in this case it took very little effort.
I download all transactions from MLIA (personal and business accounts) as a matter of course, so updating another sheet takes another minute (literally) and I have the information that I want/need including the relationship with the other accounts.
My view is that whilst I have no doubt Chris could implement another change, how long before 'it's not quite what I wanted, can we have xxxxx added' is heard? I agree that this would be useful. I find it very interesting that my GBBA account almost exclusively is made up of loans I've put in the avoid camp (some due to not understanding them, others for differing reasons). that said, I agree with ducks implied point which is having this would be nice, it wouldn't be near the top of my to do list. For example the suggested view (manual or otherwise) of the health of the PF would be higher up that priority stack for me, or the suggested tweaks to the algorithm used for loan diversity. pick your battles.
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duck
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 8:28:17 GMT
Post by duck on Aug 11, 2015 8:28:17 GMT
I've just updated my spreadsheet for my partners account and after a week (less a few hours) here is what I find ...
Everything invested (small investment, just sub 5K at present)
Invested in 26 loans (46, 49, 66, 74, 82, 113, 114, 115, 133, 151, 154, 157, 158, 162, 163, 164, 165, 167, 168, 171, 175, 178, 179, 182, 186, & 190) ..... so diversification is working.
The lowest investment is £1 (49) The highest % held is 24.118% in 165 closely followed by 168 at 22.538%.
First interest has been received.
There has been a small amount of churn but my spreadsheet only holds 355 lines at present, so not as much as I was expecting.
As expected, the fund has invested in a fair number of loans that I 'avoided' with manual investment and it has also bought loans that currently have high availability on the aftermarket. Nothing surprising in those facts, and it should (if required) add some liquidity to the underwriters for new loans.
Whist we have no intention of liquidating the account, my only 'question' would be how liquid the account is with large amounts of some of the loans already on the aftermarket. This is obviously dependant on time and growth of AC and its lender base so nobody can answer that at present.
So chris ,from my 'sample of 1' can I say everything appears to be working well, credit to you and the team for putting this together.
One 'observation' I have that has a connection to yesterdays 'black box' discussion. Whilst the interest rate is set for this account the download shows the interest rate that MLIA investors receive. Now I don't know if this is advantage or not .... and no I'm not suggesting a change! Will GBBA only investors see this as a reason to start investing through MLIA or will they think 'look how much I am being charged for the PF, what a rip off'?
Can't decide myself, psychology wasn't part of my engineering degree many years ago, I like facts and numbers 
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 8:53:08 GMT
duck likes this
Post by chris on Aug 11, 2015 8:53:08 GMT
One 'observation' I have that has a connection to yesterdays 'black box' discussion. Whilst the interest rate is set for this account the download shows the interest rate that MLIA investors receive. Now I don't know if this is advantage or not .... and no I'm not suggesting a change! Will GBBA only investors see this as a reason to start investing through MLIA or will they think 'look how much I am being charged for the PF, what a rip off'? I've just included a fix for this in the next big release. The rate shown will be the rate being earned going forward.
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sqh
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 9:00:25 GMT
Post by sqh on Aug 11, 2015 9:00:25 GMT
I've just updated my spreadsheet for my partners account and after a week (less a few hours) here is what I find ...
Everything invested (small investment, just sub 5K at present)
Invested in 26 loans (46, 49, 66, 74, 82, 113, 114, 115, 133, 151, 154, 157, 158, 162, 163, 164, 165, 167, 168, 171, 178, 179, 182, 186, 190 & 191) ..... so diversification is working.
The lowest investment is £1 (49) The highest % held is 24.118% in 165 closely followed by 168 at 22.538%. Hi duck, Can you check the investment in loan #191 ? It hasn't drawndown yet. If the GBBA sets targets for new loans before drawdown I would be concerned. Loan #191 is a small loan paying 12% and will likely be swallowed up by MLIA investors immediately.
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duck
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 9:09:29 GMT
Post by duck on Aug 11, 2015 9:09:29 GMT
I've just updated my spreadsheet for my partners account and after a week (less a few hours) here is what I find ...
Everything invested (small investment, just sub 5K at present)
Invested in 26 loans (46, 49, 66, 74, 82, 113, 114, 115, 133, 151, 154, 157, 158, 162, 163, 164, 165, 167, 168, 171, 178, 179, 182, 186, 190 & 191) ..... so diversification is working.
The lowest investment is £1 (49) The highest % held is 24.118% in 165 closely followed by 168 at 22.538%. Hi duck, Can you check the investment in loan #191 ? It hasn't drawndown yet. If the GBBA sets targets for new loans before drawdown I would be concerned. Loan #191 is a small loan paying 12% and will likely be swallowed up by MLIA investors immediately. My mistake copying from spreadsheet (couldn't cut'n'paste) - should have been 175 will edit original post
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 9:10:18 GMT
Post by chris on Aug 11, 2015 9:10:18 GMT
I've just updated my spreadsheet for my partners account and after a week (less a few hours) here is what I find ...
Everything invested (small investment, just sub 5K at present)
Invested in 26 loans (46, 49, 66, 74, 82, 113, 114, 115, 133, 151, 154, 157, 158, 162, 163, 164, 165, 167, 168, 171, 178, 179, 182, 186, 190 & 191) ..... so diversification is working.
The lowest investment is £1 (49) The highest % held is 24.118% in 165 closely followed by 168 at 22.538%. Hi duck, Can you check the investment in loan #191 ? It hasn't drawndown yet. If the GBBA sets targets for new loans before drawdown I would be concerned. Loan #191 is a small loan paying 12% and will likely be swallowed up by MLIA investors immediately. GBBA only trades in drawn down loans, there are no holdings in loan 191.
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niceguy37
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 9:20:37 GMT
Post by niceguy37 on Aug 11, 2015 9:20:37 GMT
... Whist we have no intention of liquidating the account, my only 'question' would be how liquid the account is with large amounts of some of the loans already on the aftermarket. This is obviously dependant on time and growth of AC and its lender base so nobody can answer that at present.
I tried selling up my very small test GBBA (£20) and it all went in a day, despite containing only loans with high availability, so that indicates good liquidity (albeit on a sample size of 1 and and investment of £20).
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ilmoro
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 9:32:28 GMT
Post by ilmoro on Aug 11, 2015 9:32:28 GMT
... Whist we have no intention of liquidating the account, my only 'question' would be how liquid the account is with large amounts of some of the loans already on the aftermarket. This is obviously dependant on time and growth of AC and its lender base so nobody can answer that at present.
I tried selling up my very small test GBBA (£20) and it all went in a day, despite containing only loans with high availability, so that indicates good liquidity (albeit on a sample size of 1 and and investment of £20). Also sold £10 ( yeah, another high roller) of my trial GBBA yesterday, gone in about 5 mins. Interested how many loans duck GBBA has invested in as my token involvement has never branched further than 5 holdings, even resorting to selling then buying the same one once just to keep itself amused, never a sniff of it getting adventurous & expanding its interest beyond that quintet
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duck
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GBBA
Aug 11, 2015 10:58:16 GMT
Post by duck on Aug 11, 2015 10:58:16 GMT
Cash has been added on 3 separate occasions so there was different 'availability' including yesterday so very recent loans such as 186 have been added.
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