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Post by ablrate on Aug 27, 2015 8:51:34 GMT
ablrateandy; do you have an approximate time for today's loan activity please? ATR loan goes live at midday today, we will be cancelling the other at around 11 ish... Regards Ablrate
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 27, 2015 10:23:54 GMT
ablrateandy; do you have an approximate time for today's loan activity please? ATR loan goes live at midday today, we will be cancelling the other at around 11 ish... Regards Ablrate Capital now refunded (presume outstanding interest will follow once calculated) Cleared the issue with next repayment displays as well.
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Post by ablrate on Aug 27, 2015 10:44:19 GMT
ATR loan goes live at midday today, we will be cancelling the other at around 11 ish... Regards Ablrate Capital now refunded (presume outstanding interest will follow once calculated) Cleared the issue with next repayment displays as well. Hi il moro Yes, we have to do the instant returns on this one manually, so will be crediting to all later today. Regards Ablrate
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 28, 2015 17:29:36 GMT
Capital now refunded (presume outstanding interest will follow once calculated) Cleared the issue with next repayment displays as well. Hi il moro Yes, we have to do the instant returns on this one manually, so will be crediting to all later today.Regards Ablrate This has still not happened? Would have been better to leave out the last word of the sentence - not a necessary commitment. (I have rolled the capital into the new aircraft).
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Aug 29, 2015 8:06:54 GMT
If the J*** L**** G**** goes pop, is there a clear plan to maintain/wind down this loan? I understand the logic if an individual loan within the basket goes as that can be replaced, but if the main group isn't there any more, there wouldn't be any new loans to swap out with?
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pom
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Post by pom on Aug 29, 2015 17:56:17 GMT
Hurrah, have finally managed to get rid of my odd rounded up 1p... must have been the bottling plant. Hi Congrats .. lol... we are looking at a fix for this as it does get confusing. Regards Ablrate And following a repayment on the containers it's back again.... well at least I was rid of it for 2 days
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New Loan?
Aug 29, 2015 19:27:41 GMT
via mobile
pom likes this
Post by ablrateandy on Aug 29, 2015 19:27:41 GMT
We do this because it sucks you in.... You know that the anticipation of 0.4p in free money is more tempting than the 12pc rates. But seriously, we've had some problems ahead of this in the queue but it is going to be sorted
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baldpate
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Post by baldpate on Sept 2, 2015 7:26:59 GMT
The potential for loss arises of course if the Just Loans Group is unable or unwilling to meet its commitments. In which case, as I understand it, the SPV (to whom we are lending) will have recourse the £50K cash in its account and to the security which underpins the underlying loan. In my opinion, therein lies the weakness of this proposal, because we have no visibility of the underlying loan basket, and therefore no means of assessing the number or quality of these loans. For all we know, the basket might consist of a single loan secured by an All Assetts Debenture over a company whose only assets are stock and invoice debtors, with a 95% LTV - how comfortable would you feel with that being the only egg in your basket? I exagerate, of course (or do I?), but I do so to make the point that we have NO VISIBILITY AT ALL of the contents of the basket. I hope you are hearing this, ablrate, and are able to repond with some more detailed information. Even knowing how many loans are in the basket and the average LTV% would be something. Better still would be some sort of list (anonynous of course) giving details of the underlying loans : loan amount, nature of security, LTV%. I don't see this as unreasonable. Hi There are 5 loans in the basket. We have done due diligence on all of them and have looked at the security on each which comprises charges over property and company assets. We have visibility through JL's online system where we can see payments made and outstanding loan amounts.If there are any instances of default we would invoke the JL guarantee to have the loan replaced by one which we approve. I will speak with JL to see what anonympus information we can give here and update all. Regards Ablrate Hi again ablrate , have you been in contact with Just Loans yet about providing anonymized information for the loans in the basket? A further question on this subject : have any of/all of your underwriters had access to such information? [ Yes - it is a slightly loaded question ! I'm seeking to establish just how level the playing field is vis-a-vis access to loan details] Thanks
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Post by ablrate on Sept 2, 2015 11:47:25 GMT
Hi There are 5 loans in the basket. We have done due diligence on all of them and have looked at the security on each which comprises charges over property and company assets. We have visibility through JL's online system where we can see payments made and outstanding loan amounts.If there are any instances of default we would invoke the JL guarantee to have the loan replaced by one which we approve. I will speak with JL to see what anonympus information we can give here and update all. Regards Ablrate Hi again ablrate , have you been in contact with Just Loans yet about providing anonymized information for the loans in the basket? A further question on this subject : have any of/all of your underwriters had access to such information? [ Yes - it is a slightly loaded question ! I'm seeking to establish just how level the playing field is vis-a-vis access to loan details] Thanks Hi Baldpate I have a meeting with them today at 1.30 and will report back. Regards Ablrate
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Post by ablrate on Sept 3, 2015 11:05:02 GMT
baldpateWe have spoken with JL about what extra info we can give and will be updating the loan details... also fixed a slight bug that was not allowing a description on that loan and will be updating that also. I will post when we have done that. Regards Ablrate
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james
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Post by james on Sept 5, 2015 19:29:50 GMT
Only £225 left on the ATR loan if someone wants a piece of it.
Pretty decent going for the platform size and loan frequency, £300k raised in 10 days at 10% while also raising £188k on the 10% £500k SME one so far.
Easy to see Ablrate going from the £13 million annualised this implies to £50-100 million if they can get the loan frequency up, do more of the aircraft loans and shift the interest rates a bit higher.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Sept 5, 2015 21:36:36 GMT
Ideally in that order (loan numbers, type and interest rate). it would be nice to have to have a new thread for Abl due to increased loan volume.
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james
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Post by james on Sept 6, 2015 0:36:25 GMT
Approximately what interest rate is Just Cash Flow asking from borrowers? The number is in effect disclosed in the documents, which disclose monthly interest income and total lent, but since that is non-public I'm asking instead of saying what it appears to be. Page 11 of the Business Summary for anyone with access who wants to calculate it.
For context, high street pawn costs vary in the 5-7% sort of range, up to around 12% in the UK, perhaps twice that in the US.
It's always of some interest to get some idea of how the total cost for the ultimate borrowers is apportioned between the various parties involved and how that supports the various business models.
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james
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Post by james on Sept 6, 2015 1:02:02 GMT
For the SME loan the list of new loans does not say that instant returns are enabled, while that is said in all caps for the aircraft loan. Yet the loan proposals says instant returns are enabled. Which is it? If instant returns are enabled that's something I expect to be a significant driver of getting money into the loan early instead of late and it really needs to be mentioned prominently in the list of new loans. That's because a rational investor will put their money in near to the end of the offer period to minimise the no interest time if there are no instant returns, unless they expect it to fill so fast that they might miss it.
Also worth mentioning that it's interest only on the list of loans since some people would prefer that and others depreciating (the latter for those faking a term annuity for "income").
Generic documents for the SME lender say that security can be taken on business assets but also the home and personal guarantee of the director(s). The loan proposal is more explicit, saying that security is "British SMEs with security taken over property and other assets of the business". As I parse the English of that sentence portion it means that the security is exclusively property and other assets of the business, with no use of a mortgage over director(s) homes or personal guarantees. Please confirm or contradict this interpretation so we know which portion is business assets and which personal assets when calculating the loan to value. I tend to place a low value on personal guarantees in particular. Please also confirm that the same mixture, within some specified tolerance, will be used for replacement loans in the basket, if that becomes necessary. A replacement of security over a factory, machinery and stock with a loan having solely a personal guarantee would not be pleasing.
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james
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Post by james on Sept 6, 2015 1:54:16 GMT
The SME loan supplemental terms include this: "9. Indemnification You agree to indemnify Aviation and Tech Capital Ltd (also described as ‘Ablrate’ or ‘Ablrate.com’) and Ablrate Assets Limited from any action arising from any losses incurred in this transaction. You also agree that any third party who are not a party to this loan but whom may be part of the overall transaction, such as banks and third party insurers, are indemnified from any action by yourself in connection with losses, actual or implied, by your participation in this loan." Now, this is a consumer contract and must comply with the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, as variously interpreted initially by the OFT and now by the FCA. Consider some cases: 1. A solicitor involved in drawing up contracts makes a significant error that results in security not usable. This would appear on the face of it to be professional negligence but the contract term would appear to bar consumer parties to the agreement from any form of redress. 2. Now say that the loss is incurred only by Ablrate or the SME lender. Ablrate or the SME lender are then on the face of it entitled to enforce this term against the consumer lenders forcing them - me and others - to reimburse Ablrate or the SME lender for their losses. This is a conceivable reading of the "by your participation" portion, which appears capable of broad reading to this extent. 3. Say one of the SMEs turns out to be a "long firm" rather than a legitimate business. I would normally expect the SME lender to have robust processes in place to alert them to such fraudulent businesses and that if they failed to take at least reasonable care, they would be liable. I'm unclear who the exact parties to this loan contract are and whether the SME lender is a "third party" which could rely on this clause to avoid loss, passing the loss instead to the consumer lenders. 4. Go and read about the mess involved in CF Arch Cru, where just about every party responsible for oversight has found to have been negligent, irresponsible or both and where most have been fined, agreed to pay substantial redress or both. The term appears on its face to protect all such similar parties, however negligent they might be, in this lending case. 5. Say Ablrate received the loan money then was contacted by the SME lender by email asking Ablrate to pay it into their new bank account, giving details of that new account. Does Ablrate really think that Ablrate could avoid being found negligent for accepting such an instruction without double-checking with known parties at the SME lender by phone before accepting the instruction if the email came from a fraudster, whether an insider at the SME firm, someone who hacked their mail server or someone who just did it with faked from addresses? Or that if the SME lender responder on the phone confirmed the account details and they were in fact wrong, that this wouldn't be negligent confirmation with no hope at all of the SME lender being protected by this clause? Or if the SME lender paid to an account not that of the underlying borrower? With respect to clause 8, I'm assuming that Ablrate's permission and if not, fair dealing applies to quoting terms here even though clause 8 requires express rather than implied consent. Clause 8 also appears to require that solicitors who may be advising consumers are "registered and verified members" of the Ablrate system, which hardly seems like a fair clause, barring consumers from seeking legal advice in effect, unless they know enough about copyright law to realise that it can't be used for that purpose. And naturally, should Ablrate cease trading, it'd be impossible for a new firm of solicitors to become such a member to assist consumers with resolving any matters arising. So far as: "13. Applicable Law / Dispute Resolution These terms and those of our Standard Terms and Conditions are governed by the laws of England and Wales and you agree to submit to these courts and these courts alone should you have reason to dispute the loan terms at any stage in the loan term or such time after." goes, Ablerate is prohibited by the FCA and its regulations from barring consumers taking matters first to Ablrate, then to the Financial Ombudsman Service. In the past the FCA has described terms that bar going to the FOS or FCA as unfair. Indeed, in responding to a complaint, Ablrate is required as part of any final response to tell consumers that they can go to the FOS. For example, if this post by me was to be regarded as disputing the terms, nothing in any contract that Ablrate can produce for me as a consumer is permitted to prevent me from reporting the contract to the FCA's unfair contract terms team, even though this clause on its face bars me from doing so. This, on the other hand, might be regarded as unfair for rather different reasons: "Any changes to this agreement are only valid if those changes are in writing and agreed by all Lending Members and Borrower" So there are 500 lending members and one refuses to agree, perhaps because they died three years earlier and there is currently no representative for their estate. Or simply because they can't be contacted or don't care enough to bother to respond over £0.002 left on a five year old loan they mostly sold except for the rounding errors. Loan reorganisation to the benefit of the lending members might be barred by this clause, however sensible and however beneficial it is. It does, however, have the potential advantage of placing considerable potential power in the hands of each lending member if they are willing to engage in brinkmanship that could involve forcing bankruptcy rather than accepting a resolution deal. While 100% agreement is nice, there are some merits to allowing each individual lending member to decide for themselves and at least require only say 75% agreement if not pure individual decision. The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations require balanced terms in consumer agreements. It might be of interest and value to hire a lawyer with the specific brief of representing the interests of the consumer lenders to provide some adversarial component to the contract term writing, then subjecting the terms to FCA review. If they are willing it might be useful to set a good precedent by asking the FCA's unfair contracts team to look over the contracts so that they can be adjusted to terms that they believe are fair. Saying as an opening that a consumer has expressed doubts about the fairness of some terms and asking them to take a look over all of the agreements might be a suitable start that could encourage them to proactively get things into good shape going forward. Consumers can completely ignore the terms to the extent that they are unfair but it's nice not to have to know that and not to have to have some idea of what has and hasn't been found to be unfair so you know what you can and can't ignore. Ablrate is far from the only firm that has contracts that could do with some cleaning up. Just part of business that things need tweaking, particularly early on.
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