ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Sept 6, 2015 18:15:03 GMT
I don't think you get it. Most people, not the nerdy minority who post here, want a simple life. They don't want to get into auctions, they don't want their money queueing and not being lent, they don't want to think about weekly or daily market timing, they don't want to scrutinise the lending queues. They want a simple "click and lend" product. That's "lend now". Get over it and place your bets at 6.6% or whatever.That's what i do.
As for complaints to FSA - you're in the land of deepest nod. "lend now" does what it says on the tin.
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c88dnf
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Post by c88dnf on Sept 6, 2015 19:58:08 GMT
The last comment is reasonable apart from one small thing. Those trying Rateseter as newbies will be doing so not only to get a better deal than with a mainstream financial supplier. They'll be expecting a more honest experience too. When it emerges that the real going rate on RS is typically higher than what RS induces naive lenders to accept, even if the FCA decides "tough luck", the press are likely to have a field day. "Lend it now" is not IMHO in RS' long term reputational interest, nor that of the wider P2P industry.
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Sept 6, 2015 21:18:05 GMT
I don't think you get it. Most people, not the nerdy minority who post here, want a simple life. They don't want to get into auctions, they don't want their money queueing and not being lent, they don't want to think about weekly or daily market timing, they don't want to scrutinise the lending queues. They want a simple "click and lend" product. That's "lend now". Get over it and place your bets at 6.6% or whatever.That's what i do. As for complaints to FSA - you're in the land of deepest nod. "lend now" does what it says on the tin. Since when does the simple life include being ripped off 0.6% over 5 years? I do get it.
Both the nerdy minority and the non nerdy majority should not be ripped off.
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gnasher
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Post by gnasher on Sept 7, 2015 6:52:40 GMT
I don't think you get it. Most people, not the nerdy minority who post here, want a simple life. They don't want to get into auctions, they don't want their money queueing and not being lent, they don't want to think about weekly or daily market timing, they don't want to scrutinise the lending queues. They want a simple "click and lend" product. That's "lend now". Get over it and place your bets at 6.6% or whatever.That's what i do. Well they should not be coming to RS then, there are other simple "click and lend" products out there, Wellesly for instance are currently offering 6.32% over 5 years - as simple as it gets. They do not need to get into auctions, their money is not queueing and not being lent, they do not need to think about weekly or daily market timing etc. The whole USP of RS is the fact that it is a visible and transparent market between lenders and borrowers. That is built into the DNA of the Company and indeed the name. Why oh why do RS feel the need to fiddle with it. They got it brilliantly right to start with, then all of their confounded fiddling ever since, from the new website onwards, has made it worse. If they want a simple "click and lend" product then they should launch a parallel Wellesly like product, and leave the current market as a true, visible and unhindered market.
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Sept 7, 2015 7:07:47 GMT
Why oh why do RS feel the need to fiddle with it. Because lower rates = more borrowers = more profit for RS.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Sept 7, 2015 7:36:32 GMT
The last comment is reasonable apart from one small thing. Those trying Rateseter as newbies will be doing so not only to get a better deal than with a mainstream financial supplier. They'll be expecting a more honest experience too. When it emerges that the real going rate on RS is typically higher than what RS induces naive lenders to accept, even if the FCA decides "tough luck", the press are likely to have a field day. "Lend it now" is not IMHO in RS' long term reputational interest, nor that of the wider P2P industry. I agree, and it worries me that westonkevRS "liked" ashtondav's post. This makes me think that he does not understand the issue. Despite what some posters have said, it's not about lenders being "ripped off". A lender who accepts the low "lend it now" rate is making a free choice, as are borrowers who accept more than the market rate. Are we ripping off those borrowers? No. The real issue is that most lenders (not only newcomers) who accept the low "lend it now" rate will be doing so without knowing/understanding that they are getting maybe 0.5% less than the market rate, and that if they had put their money on at the market rate it would still have been lent out either the same day or the next. If/when they figure this out they will, rightly, feel that they were inveigled into lending at the lower rate because the platform pushed them in this direction without giving them the pertinent facts. That's the grounds for complaint to the FCA (which might or might not be sustained), and it's why the press will have a field day. The default mass market offer should be "lend at market rate", pure and simple.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 7, 2015 7:56:55 GMT
The last comment is reasonable apart from one small thing. Those trying Rateseter as newbies will be doing so not only to get a better deal than with a mainstream financial supplier. They'll be expecting a more honest experience too. When it emerges that the real going rate on RS is typically higher than what RS induces naive lenders to accept, even if the FCA decides "tough luck", the press are likely to have a field day. "Lend it now" is not IMHO in RS' long term reputational interest, nor that of the wider P2P industry. I agree, and it worries me that westonkevRS "liked" ashtondav's post. This makes me think that he does not understand the issue. Despite what some posters have said, it's not about lenders being "ripped off". A lender who accepts the low "lend it now" rate is making a free choice, as are borrowers who accept more than the market rate. Are we ripping off those borrowers? No. The real issue is that most lenders (not only newcomers) who accept the low "lend it now" rate will be doing so without knowing/understanding that they are getting maybe 0.5% less than the market rate, and that if they had put their money on at the market rate it would still have been lent out either the same day or the next. If/when they figure this out they will, rightly, feel that they were inveigled into lending at the lower rate because the platform pushed them in this direction without giving them the pertinent facts. That's the grounds for complaint to the FCA (which might or might not be sustained), and it's why the press will have a field day. The default mass market offer should be "lend at market rate", pure and simple. I can see both sides of this. "Lend now" does exactly what it says on the tin. It is perfectly accurate in what it promises, and it is the right rate for what it promises. Simplicity is what pulls Joe Punter in and keeps him there. And the Lend Now rate is far, far better than the Indifferentshire Building Society can give. OTOH, it IS pushing people to a lower rate than they can quickly and easily achieve through MR, let alone through actually spending ten minutes understanding how the site works and keeping an eye on everything. One question... What's the default re-investment strategy for people who put money in via LN? MR, still, or LN? If the former, then they'll tend towards a hands-off MR over time anyway.
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Post by closetotheedge on Sept 7, 2015 8:07:56 GMT
This concerns me as a lender with RS as I want them to be strong and successful and I believe that the current lend now function leaves them open to complaints and bad customer relations. Over the years I have complained to the FCA several times about banks and other investment intermediaries and despite my claims being quite tenuous I have been awarded them all. The FCA seem very much on the 'dumb' consumers side and I believe they would be happy to accept that a RS lender who used the lend now function had not been given the full facts. Perhaps a simple tick box to warn such lenders that by using the lend now function they are accepting that the rate fluctuate and they are accepting what the RS market is offering at that immediate instant. Within this is it worth bearing in mind that rates do also go down and by waiting or queuing money above the current market there is the risk of never again achieving what the current rate is offering. A bird in the hand........ I am still waiting for my Bradford and Bingley shares to regain their value. When they were worth £8K years ago I remember I considered selling them but I decided that they had not peaked and waited.
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Sept 7, 2015 9:51:42 GMT
Can see both sides of this argument but would tend to think that some of the previous posts regarding the insertion of a line stating 'you may be able/are likely to get a higher rate if you are willing to wait longer for your lending to be accepted' should be included. The below image from this morning shows the rather ludicrous extremes this is able to get to.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Sept 7, 2015 9:52:55 GMT
There were lender offers on 3yr all the way down to 4% this morning (MR is 5.5%). Looking now, it appears that 6%* is quite possible later this morning (there's only £38K in the pot up to 5.9%), or during the afternoon. Thank you for YR, RS! You can't tell me all those people (nearly 60 of them) really knew what they were doing.
*amazing for a Monday.
Edit: four people have just lurched in at 5.3% and 5.1% c£12K to undercut peanuts at 5.8-5.4%.
" "Lend now" does exactly what it says on the tin. It is perfectly accurate in what it promises, and it is the right rate for what it promises."
...but it's probably a very bad idea.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 7, 2015 10:53:26 GMT
Looking now, it appears that 6%* is quite possible later this morning (there's only £38K in the pot up to 5.9%), or during the afternoon.
LN was 6.2%, and there was only about £30k to 6.5%, at 7.30 this morning...
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Post by westonkevRS on Sept 7, 2015 12:55:08 GMT
The last comment is reasonable apart from one small thing. Those trying Rateseter as newbies will be doing so not only to get a better deal than with a mainstream financial supplier. They'll be expecting a more honest experience too. When it emerges that the real going rate on RS is typically higher than what RS induces naive lenders to accept, even if the FCA decides "tough luck", the press are likely to have a field day. "Lend it now" is not IMHO in RS' long term reputational interest, nor that of the wider P2P industry. The default mass market offer should be "lend at market rate", pure and simple. I'm sorry but if it's a choice between MR and "lend it now", the latter wins. Customer feedback and calls (and some complaints on this web site about other platforms) often ask why their money hasn't been lent. Why the delay, how does it work, etc. Complaints about time wasted rather than the specific rate obtained. The common customer doesn't ask why they got 6.1% immediately and not a higher amount. Some do, but usually experienced lenders that didn't get the rate and then ask lots of questions about orders and how the MR is calculated. These experienced customers can continue to set their own rate. This "lent it now" solution avoids time wasted complaints whilst allowing experienced platform users to strategize. And if you think the change is an attempt to manipulate rates, well the returns this week seem to dispel this as a successful ploy! Kevin.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Sept 7, 2015 13:00:44 GMT
Hi Kev I think we ought to leave this now, as I (we) don't want RS to bring in fixed rates at (4.8% 3yr), stopping greedy b*stards like me fishing (sometimes successfully) for 6%.
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Post by pepperpot on Sept 7, 2015 13:12:42 GMT
The other side of the coin is, although some may be disappointed to find out they lent lower than can be achieved, psychologically most would start patting themselves on the back for now becoming an expert.
The difference from a likely <2% up to c6% on RS is big enough for toe dipping newbies making the change not to feel aggrieved at missing out on an extra 0.5%.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 7, 2015 13:29:04 GMT
Whilst that is true it doesn't account for lowball rates set by newbies dragging the market down for more experience / patient lenders.
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