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Post by meledor on Sept 16, 2015 14:21:50 GMT
The loan is worth whatever the amortisation calculation comes up with (principal repayment and interest are derived from this). For the purpose of the financial records for the user it is rounded and if sold transferred at that amount. There should be no question of users expecting their holding to be higher by £0.01
That's what the rounding does though, or if it's rounded down then their holding will always be lower than their statement will say it's worth. Are you actually reading or understanding what I am writing?
The amount on the statement should be exactly the same as the method I've previously identified- principal repayment and interest calculated by amortisation of the loan amount. This needs to be correct on a cumulative basis and shown to 2 decimal places/pence
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Post by chris on Sept 16, 2015 14:26:51 GMT
That's what the rounding does though, or if it's rounded down then their holding will always be lower than their statement will say it's worth. Are you actually reading or understanding what I am writing?
The amount on the statement should be exactly the same as the method I've previously identified- principal repayment and interest calculated by amortisation of the loan amount. This needs to be correct on a cumulative basis and shown to 2 decimal places/pence
If you have a 1.5p payment against a £1 loan then you're left with the statement showing 2p but the principal remaining being 99p if you round to nearest. If you round down then you have 1p principal payment shown with 98p principal remaining on the loan unit. Doesn't matter what is stored behind the scenes as soon as you round there is the possibility of a discrepancy. I know this for a fact as that is what we relaunched with last October. Everything was calculated to 20dp behind the scenes but displayed to 2dp. We had a huge number of complaints from people saying it wasn't adding up.
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Post by meledor on Sept 16, 2015 14:36:51 GMT
Are you actually reading or understanding what I am writing?
The amount on the statement should be exactly the same as the method I've previously identified- principal repayment and interest calculated by amortisation of the loan amount. This needs to be correct on a cumulative basis and shown to 2 decimal places/pence
If you have a 1.5p payment against a £1 loan then you're left with the statement showing 2p but the principal remaining being 99p if you round to nearest. If you round down then you have 1p principal payment shown with 98p principal remaining on the loan unit. Doesn't matter what is stored behind the scenes as soon as you round there is the possibility of a discrepancy. I know this for a fact as that is what we relaunched with last October. Everything was calculated to 20dp behind the scenes but displayed to 2dp. We had a huge number of complaints from people saying it wasn't adding up.
But if you follow what I suggest you will not have a 1.5p payment against a loan. Depending on whether the rounded cumulative amortised amount is 99p or 98p you will have a repayment of 1p or 2p respectively.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 16, 2015 14:44:27 GMT
We had a huge number of complaints from people saying it wasn't adding up. It still isn't. On Sunday, I put an even number of Pounds into my GBBA. By lunchtime on Monday a few investments had been made, and the 'Total Investment' in the account was then -- and still is -- £XXX.98. I'm not going to query that, but it's the sort of thing that would worry some investors -- especially newbies -- and some of them definitely will complain. There's been no more activity in my GBBA during the past 48 hours, so I'm still stuck at 28.1% invested, which means I'm actually earning 1.97% instead of the 7% I was hoping to. We'll see what happens when #174 draws down. Presuming it's GBBA-eligible, I'm expecting to see a purchase in my account. But that presumes the GBBA is assigned a bit of the drawdown, as otherwise MLIA targets -- including mine -- could absorb the whole portion of the loan that the underwriters will be releasing.
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Post by chris on Sept 16, 2015 14:52:58 GMT
We had a huge number of complaints from people saying it wasn't adding up. It still isn't. On Sunday, I put an even number of Pounds into my GBBA. By lunchtime on Monday a few investments had been made, and the 'Total Investment' in the account was then -- and still is -- £XXX.98. I'm not going to query that, but it's the sort of thing that would worry some investors -- especially newbies -- and some of them definitely will complain. There's been no more activity in my GBBA during the past 48 hours, so I'm still stuck at 28.1% invested, which means I'm actually earning 1.97% instead of the 7% I was hoping to. We'll see what happens when #174 draws down. Presuming it's GBBA-eligible, I'm expecting to see a purchase in my account. But that presumes the GBBA is assigned a bit of the drawdown, as otherwise MLIA targets -- including mine -- could absorb the whole portion of the loan that the underwriters will be releasing. I'll get one of the guys to look into that. Could you PM Colin with the details.
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Post by chris on Sept 16, 2015 14:57:56 GMT
If you have a 1.5p payment against a £1 loan then you're left with the statement showing 2p but the principal remaining being 99p if you round to nearest. If you round down then you have 1p principal payment shown with 98p principal remaining on the loan unit. Doesn't matter what is stored behind the scenes as soon as you round there is the possibility of a discrepancy. I know this for a fact as that is what we relaunched with last October. Everything was calculated to 20dp behind the scenes but displayed to 2dp. We had a huge number of complaints from people saying it wasn't adding up.
But if you follow what I suggest you will not have a 1.5p payment against a loan. Depending on whether the rounded cumulative amortised amount is 99p or 98p you will have a repayment of 1p or 2p respectively.
Behind the scenes you will have a 1.5p payment against the loan though. If you don't take that into account you have an issue when the loan unit is sold, where the purchaser gets free fractions of a penny, and merged whereby your cumulative hidden amounts could accumulate to be several pence. Haven't thought it through in full but I'd suspect there'd also be an issue with deferred interest especially where a loan unit is bought and sold several times in a month.
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Post by jevans4949 on Sept 18, 2015 10:53:21 GMT
Is this meant to happen?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 18, 2015 13:53:45 GMT
This thread is brilliant. It's never going to stop. Most people will always find it utterly comic or aggravating that AC shows amounts to this level of precision. AC are attempting to teach a 3rd year CompSci course for no practical reason. I feel it's now sufficiently close to utterly futile to be worth rounding definitively to zero point whatsoever.
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Post by mrclondon on Sept 22, 2015 15:01:40 GMT
At the moment it appears that it is impossible to sell a complete holding in a loan as one will be left with all the odd fractions. Under the old system you could just set your target to 0. There was also an "Opt Out" option which I assume did the same thing as I never used it. Perhaps a "Sell All" option could be added to overcome this problem In the old system it would also leave you with fractions as you could only sell whole pence. Sometimes you were lucky and the system rounded it up if it was nearly a whole penny but there's plenty of odd fractions lying around. Now you can sell any fraction. It you sell instruction just set it for 1p more than your holdings and it will sell that last fraction. We'll come up with a tidier way of specifying "everything". - I'm not sure this is working as per your description of just over a week ago, as I'm accumulating loans with < 0.01 holding despite specfiying a sell amount greater than my holding. One example from earlier today #90 N.Loth. WT, my MLIA holding at the start of today was £361.04 (rounded) and I requested a sale of £362.00; shortly afterwards three transactions appeared on my statement: 22nd Sep 2015 at 11:16 Sale of loan part 13356481 (new id 13369888) for 178.6006086433621931132300000000000000505819 GBP - fee 0 GBP, annualised rate 9.5, loan: N.Loth. Wind Turbine (90)
22nd Sep 2015 at 11:16 Sale of loan part 13356481 (new id 13369887) for 178.6006086433621931132300000000000000505819 GBP - fee 0 GBP, annualised rate 9.5, loan: N.Loth. Wind Turbine (90)
22nd Sep 2015 at 11:16 Sale of loan part 13356481 (new id 13369886) for 3.8487827132756137735400000000000000097468 GBP - fee 0 GBP, annualised rate 9.5, loan: N.Loth. Wind Turbine (90) I then deleted my sell instruction,perhaps foolishly, but I'm sure the loan page said I had a zero balance at that point. However I now note the loan page now claims I have a holding of < 0.01 (tool tip 0.00372209487265376209 ). This isn't the first time where a small number of hours after a sale I seem to gained a few nano pence.
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Sept 23, 2015 5:34:02 GMT
 Bring back whole pennies pence!Am I wrong in thinking that reinstatement of the old ' max investment' feature could resolve much? In order to recreate some pleasant looking round numbers in my spreadsheet, an act of supreme pedantry I have to admit (it was probably raining and I needed cheering-up), I set up 'Invest' instructions on all loans where my holding was showing 1p short of my old 'max investment' . All was going well, having acquired some of the mislaid single digits, until yesterday afternoon when, following a copy & paste from a 'Your Loans' CSV download, my smug satisfaction was disturbed on discovering some loans had suffered disfigurement again, by the addition of an unwanted £0.01.  Investigation reveals some 'Your Holding' figures displayed in 'Your Loans' no longer match the figures derived from a download, where, until yesterday (for me anyway), they tallied. Somebody appears to have recently moved the proverbial goalposts!  Yet again!!  As the extra interest arising from hold £0.01 doesn’t compensate adequately for the loss of spreadsheet aesthetic effect, I'll probably sell the 1p extra (I'd sell 0.008305483626267p if I were allowed to), but not until I'm confident that all the 'tinkering' has ceased! I am right!  If the old 'max investment' feature was reinstated my spreadsheet would appear tidier, everyone could sell their entire holding in a loan and this thread could be closed. QED!  When's chris back from his hols?
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Yet again!! 