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Post by ablrateandy on Jul 31, 2016 21:21:20 GMT
wickedxuk I am afraid that I have no idea how to surmount that problem!! Do you have a laptop that you can use?!
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Post by wickedxuk on Aug 1, 2016 7:26:11 GMT
wickedxuk I am afraid that I have no idea how to surmount that problem!! Do you have a laptop that you can use?! Yes and I'm sure it will be fine on that. I do a lot of spreadsheets on the move though as I work away a lot. So I don't always have access to the laptop. Not a problem, I'm sure I can get a slightly less accurate spreadsheet up and running for use on the go. Thanks 🖒
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Post by chielamangus on Jan 27, 2017 10:52:01 GMT
If one has to have a separate spreadsheet to work out what one's yield will be from a single simple investment, it suggests the site itself is unduly complicated and opaque. Better to fix the site, methinks.
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james
Posts: 2,205
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Post by james on Jan 27, 2017 12:44:29 GMT
If one has to have a separate spreadsheet to work out what one's yield will be from a single simple investment, it suggests the site itself is unduly complicated and opaque. Better to fix the site, methinks. Let's try you with a simple question then. What is the yield on an interest only loan at an interest rate of 12% as usually used in P2P that is purchased exactly half way through the term at par? What are the IRR and XIRRs that this spreadsheet also calculates? It doesn't get any simpler than par interest only and half way through must be easy, so surely you could do the calculation instantly in your head? Or not. If you tried it you will almost certainly have got the answer wrong, perhaps thinking it is 12% or 6%. Now try a par amortising loan deal on 30 Jan 2017 for a loan that started on 19 June 2016 and ends on 18 June 2019 and see how you do. You appear to think it's easy, so try it. Unless you're in high school you'll use at least a calculator to get the answers but a spreadsheet is more convenient as a way of saving and repeating a set of common calculations. So far this has just covered what you'd have to deal with at say MoneyThing, par only deals. No more complicated than there at this point. Variable prices add a bit more to the calculations but the basic complexity is there even for par sales.
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Post by chielamangus on Feb 21, 2017 12:53:10 GMT
I had vowed to post no more on this forum but the pomposity of the post above is more than I can resist. james obviously thinks we are a load of innumerate idiots who, while somehow having thousands and thousands of pounds to invest, cannot quickly assess to the nearest percent what our return might be. Further, this poster thinks that calculating a return to three decimal places somehow gives a more accurate comparison between investment opportunities. All interest rates quoted on every platform are only an approximate guide to what the eventual return might be. There are amortising loans where the assumption is that returned capital will immediately be reinvested at the same rate - but rarely is. There are loans where the interest is paid late - lots of those. Some loans are repaid early, so if you paid a premium for a loan part you won't get the return you banked on. Some loans are not repaid. In fact, this latter point is the most important factor affecting portfolio returns, so rather than concentrate on the spurious accuracy of three decimal point interest rates, time would be better spent on an appraisal of the business proposal and the soundness of the security offered. Ablrate's convoluted secondary market is just a distraction, and an annoying one at that. It is probably the major reason for slow growth of the platform. Other posters have commented on its shortcomings, so I know I am not alone here in criticising it. But it sounds as if Ablrate will always have one loyal investor in james. A perfect marriage to three decimal places.
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elliotn
Member of DD Central
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Post by elliotn on Feb 21, 2017 15:47:52 GMT
If one has to have a separate spreadsheet to work out what one's yield will be from a single simple investment, it suggests the site itself is unduly complicated and opaque. Better to fix the site, methinks. Yesterday I listed all my emails to calculate the premiums and record the interest bought and today I was matching the interest to interest repayments for the last two months to see how much I had actually earned. Throw in capital repayments, odd looking bid transactions, matching sales to original costs to get my gain and trying to reconcile the website to my cash position & I can only feel the website is too opaque and a complete waste of my time! I do like the loans and service though hence my perserverance and now I'm at platform limit I hope I no longer have dozens of SM purchases...if I can resist!
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Post by ablrate on Feb 28, 2017 12:21:15 GMT
I had vowed to post no more on this forum but the pomposity of the post above is more than I can resist. james obviously thinks we are a load of innumerate idiots who, while somehow having thousands and thousands of pounds to invest, cannot quickly assess to the nearest percent what our return might be. Further, this poster thinks that calculating a return to three decimal places somehow gives a more accurate comparison between investment opportunities. All interest rates quoted on every platform are only an approximate guide to what the eventual return might be. There are amortising loans where the assumption is that returned capital will immediately be reinvested at the same rate - but rarely is. There are loans where the interest is paid late - lots of those. Some loans are repaid early, so if you paid a premium for a loan part you won't get the return you banked on. Some loans are not repaid. In fact, this latter point is the most important factor affecting portfolio returns, so rather than concentrate on the spurious accuracy of three decimal point interest rates, time would be better spent on an appraisal of the business proposal and the soundness of the security offered. Ablrate's convoluted secondary market is just a distraction, and an annoying one at that. It is probably the major reason for slow growth of the platform. Other posters have commented on its shortcomings, so I know I am not alone here in criticising it. But it sounds as if Ablrate will always have one loyal investor in james . A perfect marriage to three decimal places. I appreciate that our Secondary market is not for everyone.. but if you would like to buy and sell at par then that is, of course, perfectly possible on Ablrate. Our SM has traded £286,000 in the last 14 days showing that there is liquidity there and across the nearly 11,000 trades performed since inception circa 45% of trades were at par. It was designed to give the option for customers to have some kind of liquidity in an illiquid market (as a customer service - we don't charge for it), and to allow differential pricing when a credit profile changes or liquidity is required quickly for a customer, we think that we have achieved this. I do agree that it can be complicated and that could be down to the reporting. This needs to be addressed, and we are on with this now, i.e simplifying the reporting, we hope this may help with understanding things better. Regards Ablrate
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SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Feb 28, 2017 13:44:58 GMT
Much the same as on FC, I imagine the large majority will be above par since lender demand continues to outstrip supply.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Feb 28, 2017 14:10:08 GMT
Much the same as on FC, I imagine the large majority will be above par since lender demand continues to outstrip supply. Agreed, there will not be much below par. What worries me is that buyers seem to be primarily concerned with AER, and we find that the loans with the highest interest rates attract the highest premiums - the secondary market shows that from the bids. So a 16% loan gets bids at +3% while a 10% loan may require a small discount. Do buyers appreciate that the rate reflects the risk, and that these 10% loans firmly secured on bricks and mortar and bought at par are less of a hostage to fortune than the higher rated premium loans where the AER quoted requires a long term hold? (Yes, I have now sold my excess 16% and 14% holdings)
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Post by ablrate on Feb 28, 2017 15:11:16 GMT
That saved me asking one question, thank you, but now prompts another.... Of the remaining 55%, are you able to share the above and below par split, please? The split is pretty much even with the average premium being 101.1 and the average discount being 99.5
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Post by dan1 on Jan 23, 2018 13:57:07 GMT
ablrate - apologies if you've answered this before, but is there a way to calculate the remaining capital outstanding on an amortising loan? I tried a simple calculation assuming constant capital payments per period (e.g. 1/36 of a 36 month loan) but it didn't match the remaining amount shown on the SM (example below from 1000058 due for payment today - 37 payments remaining of 48.... £300k*37/48 = £231.25k). Perhaps the amount due on this loan includes accrued but unpaid interest? I suspect I've got it entirely wrong. Maybe it's a constant payment from the borrower, i.e. at the start of the loan most of the payment is interest? Thanks
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Post by ablrate on Jan 23, 2018 14:07:54 GMT
Hi Its calculated on a reducing balance basis. So its the same payment each month with mostly interest at the beginning. They have some here -haven't tested, but I would imagine they operate in the same way.
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Post by dan1 on Jan 23, 2018 21:02:51 GMT
To calculate the outstanding capital in excel/sheets you can use the cumulative principal function (calculates the capital paid to date),
=Size + cumprinc(Rate/12,Term,Size,Term-Remaining,0) where, - Rate is the annual interest rate, % - Term is the loan term in months - Size is the loan size, £ - Remaining is the number of payments remaining (alternatively, replace Term-Remaining with Payments made to date)
e.g. 1000058 before the payment today (see above)
=300000 + cumprinc(14%/12,48,300000,48-37,0)
yields £245,200.10
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