webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Sept 16, 2015 9:18:38 GMT
There were some naughty investors massively overbidding and subsequently releasing back into the market. Whilst this is working well enough, we are going to be tweaking the rules slightly to stop this kind of behaviour. Wait out. I suppose there are two types of such investor: 1) Those that have rectified their BACS deficit and are being punished by losing interest 2) Those who have left their BACS deficit unfunded. What is a suitable disincentive for them?
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Sept 16, 2015 9:18:56 GMT
There were some naughty investors massively overbidding and subsequently releasing back into the market. Whilst this is working well enough, we are going to be tweaking the rules slightly to stop this kind of behaviour. Wait out. Jolly good. About time. How about a rule that says "you can't sell something until you've actually paid for it"? Old-fashioned ethics, I know... Yes and would even go further to say you can't sell anything on the SM until you have cleared the BACS deficit from the pre-fund. Will ensure people bid for what they have funds to pay for. Once cleared they can then sell whatever they like on the SM
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 16, 2015 9:22:19 GMT
Do you folks think that we might have finally reached saturation point where all current platform users are fully invested? If so we might have to wait for ISA implementation to restore liquidity to the SM. Or SS might "do a Wellesley" and spend money on TV advertising rather than paying it to investors. Or is it that lenders don't like the specific loan? Hard to see why it is so much less attractive than Humberside. No, there is still substantial demand as the SM demonstrates, it's just a matter of everyone getting used to the new Pre-Funding regime and the implications for new loans of differing sizes. So far I've managed to get pretty much what I wanted of each loan but only by setting very different targets depending on the loan size. PBL58 was the largest Pre-Funded to date and so always likely to be undersubscribed. The 2 Hackney loans (if / when they eventually launch) should prove interesting viewing...
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alan
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Post by alan on Sept 16, 2015 9:29:35 GMT
Personally I think it's OK.
If there is a concern that some can't repay their deficit then they could get a Yellow/Red card or just put a max on the Deficit.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Sept 16, 2015 9:30:15 GMT
Jolly good. About time. How about a rule that says "you can't sell something until you've actually paid for it"? Old-fashioned ethics, I know... Yes and would even go further to say you can't sell anything on the SM until you have cleared the BACS deficit from the pre-fund. Will ensure people bid for what they have funds to pay for. Once cleared they can then sell whatever they like on the SM The problem with this is that it would prevent the 'loan going live day shuffle ', ie folk selling of a few bits and bobs to rebalance. As I happened to be online when 58 went live, I picked up a small part in one of my target loans due to this. Whilst loans with 9+ months to go don't seem to be released, getting into some at around 7 months helps with diversity as I was in them when they went live. Not being able to sell parts of loans which generated the deficit however might work, ie you can't sell 58 until you clear it's deficit but could sell parts of it subsequently eg when 59 goes live. It would be far from KISS though. I just hope that the tweaks implemented due to this behaviour don't impact the rest of us withwhat is currently, IMHO, one of the simplest to use platforms.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 16, 2015 9:37:36 GMT
Yes and would even go further to say you can't sell anything on the SM until you have cleared the BACS deficit from the pre-fund. Will ensure people bid for what they have funds to pay for. Once cleared they can then sell whatever they like on the SM The problem with this is that it would prevent the 'loan going live day shuffle ', ie folk selling of a few bits and bobs to rebalance. As I happened to be online when 58 went live, I picked up a small part in one of my target loans due to this. Whilst loans with 9+ months to go don't seem to be released, getting into some at around 7 months helps with diversity as I was in them when they went live. Not being able to sell parts of loans which generated the deficit however might work, ie you can't sell 58 until you clear it's deficit but could sell parts of it subsequently eg when 59 goes live. It would be far from KISS though. I just hope that the tweaks implemented due to this behaviour don't impact the rest of us withwhat is currently, IMHO, one of the simplest to use platforms. I agree, any "controls" should be upstream rather than downstream. Yellow card naughty investors selling down the bulk of their allocations to cover their deficits, then Red card next time by limiting their maximum Pre-Funding option to a level they appear to be able to fund.
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Sept 16, 2015 9:40:19 GMT
Yes I both like and take advantage of the current system (and have multiple 6 figures currently invested on the platform) so it would be a shame to see it taken away.
I think the idea of giving a warning to people who abuse the pre-funding allocation system is a great one, followed by removing the facility for those who are clearly not playing by the rules.
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ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Sept 16, 2015 9:50:06 GMT
Jolly good. About time. How about a rule that says "you can't sell something until you've actually paid for it"? Old-fashioned ethics, I know... Yes and would even go further to say you can't sell anything on the SM until you have cleared the BACS deficit from the pre-fund. Will ensure people bid for what they have funds to pay for. Once cleared they can then sell whatever they like on the SM You'd be saying goodbye to me and probably a lot of long-time investors who are already fully invested here in that case Investor - it's been a while since I added new money onto the platform and always fund my new loan purchases with sales of older ones. Up until the pre-fund model I had to second guess when a loan was about to go live and pre-sell investments, often missing out on a few days interest. It was ok, but the pre- funding is working like a dream in this situation, and my (and others) selling of my earlier loan parts is giving plenty of people a known time to be able to diversify into them. Preventing the sale of other loans to clear the BACS deficit created by purchase of new ones, would in my opinion, cause a bit of a disfunction.
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Post by supernumerary on Sept 16, 2015 9:50:48 GMT
There were some naughty investors massively overbidding and subsequently releasing back into the market. Whilst this is working well enough, we are going to be tweaking the rules slightly to stop this kind of behaviour. Wait out. Having done a ‘rough calculation’ using the amount I have been paid for one days interest, based on the amount I have invested in this loan, I have calculated the following figure. One days interest on £330,000K, equals £108.62 ½ approx., which can be sold at some time after midnight... No wonder Saving Stream are NOT very happy...
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Post by fiatlender on Sept 16, 2015 9:52:57 GMT
There were some naughty investors massively overbidding and subsequently releasing back into the market. Whilst this is working well enough, we are going to be tweaking the rules slightly to stop this kind of behaviour. Wait out. Im glad you posted this and are recifying it SS, as the person/s who did this last night were taking the p*ss a bit. I am aware of the flaw and why this person/s did this. To show I know what this is SS, it's all about "timing". Edit: supernumerary, you let the cat out of the bag!  
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Post by meledor on Sept 16, 2015 9:54:23 GMT
I think you should not be able to sell a loan that you've pre-funded unless you've cleared your BACS funding deficit related to that loan - of course other loans could be sold. We are getting a benefit from Pre-funding in terms of an allocation (which despite the name we do not have to pre-fund unlike some other platforms) and Saving Stream benefit from seeing the level of demand for a particular loan before it goes live. People setting grossly inflated pre-funding level promises that they are unable to keep is working against these benefits on both sides.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Sept 16, 2015 10:03:28 GMT
I think you should not be able to sell a loan that you've pre-funded unless you've cleared your BACS funding deficit related to that loan - of course other loans could be sold. We are getting a benefit from Pre-funding in terms of an allocation (which despite the name we do not have to pre-fund unlike some other platforms) and Saving Stream benefit from seeing the level of demand for a particular loan before it goes live. People setting grossly inflated pre-funding level promises that they are unable to keep is working against these benefits on both sides. But that would simply cause headaches for genuine investors who slightly misjudge aggregate demand for a specific loan and need to trim their allocation slightly within the first 24 hours. Don't tar everyone with the same brush by putting in needless blanket controls. Focus any action to upstream controls on the Pre-Funding options of repeat offenders.
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Sept 16, 2015 10:03:41 GMT
Yes and would even go further to say you can't sell anything on the SM until you have cleared the BACS deficit from the pre-fund. Will ensure people bid for what they have funds to pay for. Once cleared they can then sell whatever they like on the SM You'd be saying goodbye to me and probably a lot of long-time investors who are already fully invested here in that case Investor - it's been a while since I added new money onto the platform and always fund my new loan purchases with sales of older ones. Up until the pre-fund model I had to second guess when a loan was about to go live and pre-sell investments, often missing out on a few days interest. It was ok, but the pre- funding is working like a dream in this situation, and my (and others) selling of my earlier loan parts is giving plenty of people a known time to be able to diversify into them. Preventing the sale of other loans to clear the BACS deficit created by purchase of new ones, would in my opinion, cause a bit of a disfunction. However this still gets back to the root of the cause that you are making a commitment to fund an investment based on the belief/hope that you will be able to fund it from sales from other investments, i.e you are assuming that liquidity will remain on the SM. When I commit to any purchase in life, p2p/auction/ebay I would not go back to the person I had made that commitment to and tell them that it is 'subject to me releasing the funds from other avenues'. I have no problem making the PF commitments I have previously set and then accepting that the responsibilty to recover that money from SM sales rest with me and not with the platform. High horse moment, still my favourite Rose
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alan
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Post by alan on Sept 16, 2015 10:04:45 GMT
What would help is if Saving Stream crediting my Faster Payment transfers when they are received.
Currently mine have taken between 24 & 48 hours.
These transfers happen in virtual real time on my accounts.
I think the Deficit funding is a great option and it would be disappointing if it was curtailed.
My final request (me on my hobby horse) is could the dashboard/transactions handle this a little more clearly.
Many Thanks
Alan
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homes119
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Post by homes119 on Sept 16, 2015 10:07:06 GMT
There were some naughty investors massively overbidding and subsequently releasing back into the market. Whilst this is working well enough, we are going to be tweaking the rules slightly to stop this kind of behaviour. Wait out. Having done a ‘rough calculation’ using the amount I have been paid for one days interest, based on the amount I have invested in this loan, I have calculated the following figure. One days interest on £330,000K, equals £108.62 ½ approx., which can be sold at some time after after midnight... No wonder Saving Stream are NOT very happy... Cheeky! I say next time freeze the investors funds on the platform, demand clearing of the deficit and, if their is failure to cover, liquidate said investors SS portfolio and demand the balance :-P On a more serious note, this behaviour should not be tolerated.
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