bjorn
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Post by bjorn on Sept 16, 2015 12:23:45 GMT
Yes and would even go further to say you can't sell anything on the SM until you have cleared the BACS deficit from the pre-fund. Will ensure people bid for what they have funds to pay for. Once cleared they can then sell whatever they like on the SM Preventing the sale of other loans to clear the BACS deficit created by purchase of new ones, would in my opinion, cause a bit of a disfunction. I don't think selling other parts is such a problem. The issue is people dumping the loan itself that they've over pre-funded. The problem with that is that there's no down-side to over-bidding in pre-funding which means that, particularly for smaller loans, pre-funding could just become an ever-escalating game of second-guessing the level to which everyone else is second-guessing so that you end up with what you want. Much simpler to have a system where you can only sell a pre-funded loan once you've funded it (either by selling parts you already hold on the SM or adding new money). That way people won't bid for more than they're happy to take.
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Sept 16, 2015 12:30:12 GMT
Im not sure where poeple are getting this £330k from, as just after midnight, I only witnessed the % rise from about 29% to 32%, thus 3% of £3m would have been £90,000 back onto the market. It went down to 21% and about 650k, it then jumped up to 30%+ & nearly a million It was down to £633k just before midnight. After the £330k there was more added to the pot overnight - I think about £30k more, plus £70k of PBL57.
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bjorn
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Post by bjorn on Sept 16, 2015 12:41:47 GMT
I think you should not be able to sell a loan that you've pre-funded unless you've cleared your BACS funding deficit related to that loan - of course other loans could be sold. We are getting a benefit from Pre-funding in terms of an allocation (which despite the name we do not have to pre-fund unlike some other platforms) and Saving Stream benefit from seeing the level of demand for a particular loan before it goes live. People setting grossly inflated pre-funding level promises that they are unable to keep is working against these benefits on both sides. But that would simply cause headaches for genuine investors who slightly misjudge aggregate demand for a specific loan and need to trim their allocation slightly within the first 24 hours. Don't tar everyone with the same brush by putting in needless blanket controls. Focus any action to upstream controls on the Pre-Funding options of repeat offenders. It doesn't seem unreasonable to have a system where people have to fund what they get allocated. That way, you have to limit your bids to what you're happy to fund. This would actually help the genuine investors who are struggling to judge demand as everyone would be pre-funding at levels that they're happy to take rather than trying to second-guess what everyone else has second-guessed in over-bidding at pre-funding. The way I see it, pre-funding is a bit like placing an order. If you place an order at a restaurant, you're expected to pay for what you ordered. Doesn't matter where you get that money from, but when the bill comes you have to pay. The one thing you can't do is give what you ordered back to the restaurant to sell to another customer.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Sept 16, 2015 12:43:17 GMT
871k at the time of typing.
My guess of Thursday looking more and more optimistic.
Time to cut the grass, before it starts snowing.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Sept 16, 2015 12:58:04 GMT
You'd be saying goodbye to me and probably a lot of long-time investors who are already fully invested here in that case Investor - it's been a while since I added new money onto the platform and always fund my new loan purchases with sales of older ones. Up until the pre-fund model I had to second guess when a loan was about to go live and pre-sell investments, often missing out on a few days interest. It was ok, but the pre- funding is working like a dream in this situation, and my (and others) selling of my earlier loan parts is giving plenty of people a known time to be able to diversify into them. Preventing the sale of other loans to clear the BACS deficit created by purchase of new ones, would in my opinion, cause a bit of a disfunction. However this still gets back to the root of the cause that you are making a commitment to fund an investment based on the belief/hope that you will be able to fund it from sales from other investments, i.e you are assuming that liquidity will remain on the SM. When I commit to any purchase in life, p2p/auction/ebay I would not go back to the person I had made that commitment to and tell them that it is 'subject to me releasing the funds from other avenues'. I have no problem making the PF commitments I have previously set and then accepting that the responsibilty to recover that money from SM sales rest with me and not with the platform. High horse moment, still my favourite Rose Not so black and white for me. I'm not relying on the SM liquidity at all. I would be perfectly happy to meet my prefunded commitments by transferring money in if the liquidity dried up, and my prefunded levels are set accordingly. It's just my preferred way not to have to. Without the new trust structure I'd have been more than happy to wait till older loans paid back before putting money into new loans, and in fact often did. But now those of you who wanted the new trust structure have got your own way, I'm not prepared to do that any more. That means, if I were prevented from recycling my older loans into new ones I'd be pretty much forced to stop lending here. Obviously that means that if the SM ever does dry up, then that's what I'll have to do.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 16, 2015 13:18:21 GMT
However this still gets back to the root of the cause that you are making a commitment to fund an investment based on the belief/hope that you will be able to fund it from sales from other investments, i.e you are assuming that liquidity will remain on the SM. When I commit to any purchase in life, p2p/auction/ebay I would not go back to the person I had made that commitment to and tell them that it is 'subject to me releasing the funds from other avenues'. I have no problem making the PF commitments I have previously set and then accepting that the responsibilty to recover that money from SM sales rest with me and not with the platform. High horse moment, still my favourite Rose Not so black and white for me. I'm not relying on the SM liquidity at all. I would be perfectly happy to meet my prefunded commitments by transferring money in if the liquidity dried up, and my prefunded levels are set accordingly. It's just my preferred way not to have to. Without the new trust structure I'd have been more than happy to wait till older loans paid back before putting money into new loans, and in fact often did. But now those of you who wanted the new trust structure have got your own way, I'm not prepared to do that any more. That means, if I were prevented from recycling my older loans into new ones I'd be pretty much forced to stop lending here. Obviously that means that if the SM ever does dry up, then that's what I'll have to do. Same here. Until last week I held parts of every single loan bar 3 which I missed due to the access issue. Now Ive sold out of the four that are overdue, plus 1 imminent and will dispose of the other 2 as soon as I can grab a bit of something more recent I like. I set my targets on what I want to hold, no attempt to game the system, if I get it fine, if not Ill pick up when I can, sell parts to offset any deficit but if that takes more than a few hours will BACS the cash in. Actually increased my exposure to more recent loans because I have target I want to invest in SS, (just about there). Current system works perfectly for me. Do wonder whether people who are buying those overdue loans realize that they might not get the interest paid under the new trust structure as SS wont cover it! On an unrelated point, if you buy an oversubscribed part, ie available loan goes neg, does anyone know if you get the interest on that part while it technically doesnt exist? As SS dont seem to be bothering to clear overfundings that are significant sums that potential arent earning interest if this is the case (c7k currently)
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Sept 16, 2015 14:10:30 GMT
Do wonder whether people who are buying those overdue loans realize that they might not get the interest paid under the new trust structure as SS wont cover it! On an unrelated point, if you buy an oversubscribed part, ie available loan goes neg, does anyone know if you get the interest on that part while it technically doesnt exist? As SS dont seem to be bothering to clear overfundings that are significant sums that potential arent earning interest if this is the case (c7k currently) I think SS need to make it very clear when a loan is or isn't paying interest on an ongoing basis. As far as I recall, some of the current and recent loans that have been overdue have had additional interest payments made so that they are effectively extending the term. In these cases I expect that SS would pay interest as they have received it from the borrower. To make it clear, SS should reset the outstanding term to the point to which interest has been paid and in the case of interest not being paid mark this loan clearly as being in default. Note that outstanding interest may still be paid at the point when SS recovers payment from the borrower if there are sufficient funds to do so. On the second point, I would be very upset if I wasn't being paid interest on a part that was over-funded given that over-funding is effectively a malfunction of the SS website. I haven't checked if my interest has been paid correctly in these cases but I did once note that an over-funded transaction which was subsequently backed-out in its entirety did appear to lose all interest attaching to it (as if that loan part had never existed). I was rather annoyed but didn't follow it up.
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Post by supernumerary on Sept 16, 2015 15:43:46 GMT
871k at the time of typing. My guess of Thursday looking more and more optimistic. Time to cut the grass, before it starts snowing. Time of posting this: 4:43PM Amount available to fund: £964,305.30
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Sept 16, 2015 17:30:04 GMT
I vote for Bjørn's suggestion as the best so far:
a system where you can only sell a pre-funded loan once you've funded it (either by selling parts you already hold on the SM or adding new money). That way people won't bid for more than they're happy to take.
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Sept 16, 2015 18:44:59 GMT
I vote for Bjørn's suggestion as the best so far: a system where you can only sell a pre-funded loan once you've funded it (either by selling parts you already hold on the SM or adding new money). That way people won't bid for more than they're happy to take. Easy idea to contemplate, probably harder to code without messing up the new BACS offset facility. Currently the automatically created BACS deficit is created by the pre-funding of a loan but it's not tied to that loan.
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Sept 16, 2015 18:58:50 GMT
Maybe just prevent selling of any parts in a loan for the first 5 days after launch? Direct request to SS in event of emergency divestment requirement. However, this wouldn't stop people bidding high and not settling BACS deficit so SS cancel parts - they could remove interest in that situation.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 16, 2015 19:16:59 GMT
However, this wouldn't stop people bidding high and not settling BACS deficit so SS cancel parts - they could remove interest in that situation. There's an easy way to stop people playing that game... Three strikes and you're out.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Sept 16, 2015 19:31:35 GMT
........they could remove interest in that situation. I would hope they do that anyway. There's an easy way to stop people playing that game... Three strikes and you're out. Actually I'd suggest two, and only on the grounds of benefit of doubt the first time round!
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alan
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Post by alan on Sept 16, 2015 19:35:21 GMT
Maybe just prevent selling of any parts in a loan for the first 5 days after launch? Direct request to SS in event of emergency divestment requirement. However, this wouldn't stop people bidding high and not settling BACS deficit so SS cancel parts - they could remove interest in that situation. I think preventing sales is restrictive. I submit my deficit within 24 hours (usually 24 mins!). The BACS deficit feature gives you the opportunity to not have to wait for your funds to clear and it is agreat feature that SS offer. If I PF too much and cant sell it that's my problem but I dont think I should be stopped from doing so. Alan
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 16, 2015 19:39:26 GMT
I can see a legitimate excuse for failing to pay up for a pre-fund, though.
57 came through just last Friday. I happened to have gone away on Thursday for the weekend, and couldn't send money until Sunday night. If I'd gone away earlier, I might not have checked email since Weds pm/eve - and if they money wasn't with them until almost a week later, would that trip a strike?
A month or so ago, I was away for a fortnight and off the internet for almost all of that time.
It's very easy to see how you could end up with an extended delay purely through not knowing. Loans sit in the pipeline for ages, then - bang - number assigned, live, and you owe a few hundred quid or more, to be paid within a couple of days. That's not always terribly convenient. All it takes is forgetting to turn off the pre-fund before you go away...
You would certainly need to have a convincing note from your mum, but there should be a way to appeal at least the first strike.
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