james
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Post by james on Sept 28, 2015 22:01:17 GMT
One of the really interesting things for Ablrate will presumably have been just how much money has been paid in and withdrawn with just a few hours notice. Should provide them with interesting capacity data for loans of comparable properties (rate, security and term) and very short notice that would have regulated just how much demand was possible. As usual it takes platforms a while to adjust so we'll probably see it taking a while for Ablrate just as it's taken a while for others. Overall it's a good problem to have. Places offering us things we want even if there are glitches along the way that can be worked on for the future. Beats the alternative of not offering us what we want.
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jimbob
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Post by jimbob on Sept 28, 2015 22:01:30 GMT
I am not sure whether to apologise or not. 17 investors got filled (one person was in for a substantial amount). This, for me personally and professionally, is a very difficult situation to manage. 14% per year annually is, in my opinion, a very, very generous interest rate for investors. Before I had even said that I would do a trade, I had nearly £1mio in commitment. This then leaves me in a dilemma - do I cut the interest rate or increase the size? Unfortunately, if I cut the rate then I do lenders a disservice because the borrower is happy to pay the rate. If I increase the size then I have sleepless nights over how much dealflow the client can do at this level of profitability. My priority is to achieve a deal size that maintains maximum security and unfortunately that has led to a fastest finger first. If people are willing to buy at a lower rate then I am sure that some loans will be offered at 12 or 13% tomorrow morning and these will be paid with accrued interest etc. Perhaps restrict bids to £1000 for the first 5 minutes of the offer ?
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Post by ablrateandy on Sept 28, 2015 22:06:42 GMT
I sort of like that conceptually... but then again it has its own separate problems where if I have someone who wants to put down 20k I don't really want to say "No".
As it is, I have woken up the borrower to talk about this. We will fractionally upsize the deal (to say 75 or 90k) and I will put the balance on the secondary market at some pre-announced time. All I have to do now is work out how to do that in the system....
Once again, I am genuinely sorry if people missed out but I am doing my best to provide the right products at the right price...
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LittleBear
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Post by LittleBear on Sept 28, 2015 22:12:40 GMT
I sort of like that conceptually... but then again it has its own separate problems where if I have someone who wants to put down 20k I don't really want to say "No". But do you want to keep one investor happy or make 20 fairly happy with £1000 each?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 28, 2015 22:24:54 GMT
I am not sure whether to apologise or not. 17 investors got filled (one person was in for a substantial amount). This, for me personally and professionally, is a very difficult situation to manage. 14% per year annually is, in my opinion, a very, very generous interest rate for investors. Before I had even said that I would do a trade, I had nearly £1mio in commitment. This then leaves me in a dilemma - do I cut the interest rate or increase the size? Unfortunately, if I cut the rate then I do lenders a disservice because the borrower is happy to pay the rate. If I increase the size then I have sleepless nights over how much dealflow the client can do at this level of profitability. My priority is to achieve a deal size that maintains maximum security and unfortunately that has led to a fastest finger first. If people are willing to buy at a lower rate then I am sure that some loans will be offered at 12 or 13% tomorrow morning and these will be paid with accrued interest etc. Don't apologise, but do realise that there are funds chasing return. The fact that this offering was "so over-subscribed" tends to suggest that a) people believe in the platform, and b) people believe in the product. And c) chase yield regardless of product risk or platform risk. Of course, managing supply and demand, and growing both, safely, is exactly what ablrate, and others, are about. DISCLAIMER: I met up for a beer or two last week with Andy and his boss, Dave. Put to one side the fact that Andy might know his financial maths, and Dave his aircraft industry, and I walked away with one other feeling - they'd both felt.... some combination of "caught out", "burnt", "disappointed", "let down", "didn't read the lending market" and... "we got it wrong" about an aircraft loan that hadn't filled on ablrate previously. This was previous to my lending on the platform. They were keen, and enthusiastic, but suitably chastened. Now I'm attributing my own thoughts to this slightly random evening of drinks that we had, but I was glad that they had paused, and reconsidered the lenders market and the borrowers market. They need to find new asset backed lending opportunities that can, essentially, be securitised on "our side". The plane loans will come. In that regard container loans make sense, even if I didn't get a piece of this one. Will I try and get dibs at the next one? Absolutely. Will I try and pick up some pieces on the SM to shower some of my co-forumites in premium shrapnel (I play WoT and WoWS btw)? No chance .
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james
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Post by james on Sept 28, 2015 22:35:13 GMT
As it is, I have woken up the borrower to talk about this. We will fractionally upsize the deal (to say 75 or 90k) and I will put the balance on the secondary market at some pre-announced time. All I have to do now is work out how to do that in the system.... Rather than secondary market, would it be possible to do one of these things: 1. Check who made a bid but was declined and deliver pro-rated loan amounts to them provided they put sufficient money in their account by a specified date. 2. Check who looked at the new loans page in say a five minute time window and pro-rate allocations to them based on total funds in their account at the time. I mention those two options because: 1. They will more specifically target those who tried to participate in the relevant time window. 2. The pro-rating should let all who tried get something. 3. I assume that the secondary market offer will be 100% taken within a few seconds of going live, and quite likely by different people.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 28, 2015 23:08:47 GMT
Not surprising trying to bid on mobile on a site not designed for mobiles proved unsuccessful. I suppose we should be screaming for bid limits but weirdly Im not that fussed. Investêd the money in a sub. These containers float, right?
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on Sept 28, 2015 23:51:07 GMT
Rather than secondary market, would it be possible to do one of these things: 1. Check who made a bid but was declined and deliver pro-rated loan amounts to them provided they put sufficient money in their account by a specified date. 2. Check who looked at the new loans page in say a five minute time window and pro-rate allocations to them based on total funds in their account at the time. And you don't think either of those things would be erm. rather complex? I believe there is no need for ablrateandy to have woken the borrower to get them to agree to increase the size of this loan and put it on the secondary market - just save it for the next container load.. What is disappointing for me is that about 5% of the loan is currently being offered on the secondary market - perhaps implementing a rule that new holders can't sell on the market (or at a premium) for a set amount of time would prevent some from over bidding, allowing more for others.
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on Sept 28, 2015 23:57:42 GMT
Some other platforms would and have opted for the 1 person when faced with a similar scenario - simply as that individual is more likely to invest more in the longer run than 20 smaller ones.. It would be interesting if ablrateandy could publish how much each of the 17 investors was allocated (in ranges i.e. 0-500. 501-1000 etc). I don't think this information is available on the website (MoneyThing and SS both allow you to see recent transactions in a loan)
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iren
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Post by iren on Sept 28, 2015 23:58:34 GMT
Having missed out on the last container loan due to not being a fastest gun, I decided not to try again this time. It was whether it was worth setting an alarm on my phone and interrupting time with friends, plus credit my account in advance, for a potentially futile activity.
Looking at the number of successful investors against the numbers of posters saying they missed out, let alone the others who don't post here, I'm glad of my decision, and I expect not to take part next time either.
I guess the danger for Ablrate is if people who aren't attracted by fast draw investing or by buying without sight of documentation , find they can't get into more popular loans in general, they may be less inclined to support larger and less popular loans.
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johnfleet
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Post by johnfleet on Sept 29, 2015 6:01:59 GMT
Ablrate need to sort this out issue out or face losing credibility with smaller investors. It was patently obvious based on the previous container sales that this would fill within seconds and result in many frustrated potential investors. Why can't they do as other platforms do and simply set a bid limit. Even £500 would have allowed 120 + folk to participate rather than 17. Fortunately for me I was out for a family meal so wasn't tempted to waste my time transferring money in for what would almost certainly have been a stressful and pointless exercise.
I would like to invest more in the platform and clearly many others would do but handling popular auctions in this way is not going to grow the user base.
Another alternative might be to consider the SS pre-funding route - at least everyone would then be guaranteed some slice of the cake..
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duck
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Post by duck on Sept 29, 2015 6:03:42 GMT
Lets get this in perspective. The loan was 'small', good security, the borrower is establishing a good record etc
So 'congratulations' to ablrate for securing the business (and getting the loan away) and to the borrower for his continued business.
Did I loose any sleep - no What did I learn - others have faster broadband!
As was brought up earlier in the thread by SteveT, why the big difference with the other current loan? OK there has been some discussion on security and the rate is slightly lower but it shouldn't be forgotten that the loan is amortising. The only other major 'structural' difference is the terms 6 months or 3 years. Are people simply thinking/wanting 'short term'? Obviously I can't answer that question for others but I generally invest for 'term' and like a mixture for continued liquidity.
If 'term' is a big driver for others then the aftermarket plays a big part giving people confidence that they can 'dump' investments mid term. Currently there are (as far as I can see) no 'stats' available to show that the aftermarket is turning over a good quantity of loan parts. Regular visitors to the site will see it moves well but occasional visitors will have no indication that they can sell on their 3, 4, 5 & 6 year loan parts if they want/need to. Perhaps a 'ticker' or monthly figure would attract lenders to the longer term loans?
oh and yes I'm in the new loan (and most of the others) before anybody asks
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Sept 29, 2015 6:23:16 GMT
Unlike several others on this thread, I really don't have a wild social life, and didn't have anything better to do with my time at 8pm, so I was online and managed to bag a small slice of the cake/pie. Compared to SS, the platform stood up pretty well to the undoubted hammering it was getting - no errors visible at least. Although I am concerned that it allowed the loan to go over-funded, as this undoubtedly gives a bit of a headache to ABLrate in either unwinding the later bids, or raising the amount funded. It's this latter point that is concerning me a little. I can see that ablrateandy is looking at the possibility of increasing the loan amount, with the attendant risks that he himself highlighted. When I bid, I was bidding "blind", but doing so for a known proposition - this is the fourth tranche of containers, of the same size and with good track record. This is why I, and many others, were willing to bid without reviewing the documentation. Now, it seems, we might have been bidding on a bigger loan than we thought, only 3 weeks after the last one, for which buyers have not yet been found, AFAIK. So, if the amount must be increased due to the overbidding issue, let's not go too far, please. Let's give the chap a chance to sell the ones we've already funded. As for next time, either pre-funding or bid-limits would seem to be the way to go. We've seen both employed effectively by other sites that seem to manage to retain a mix of big-hitters and small investors. A 1-minute scrum, even at a relatively friendly hour of the evening, doesn't appear to be the answer.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 29, 2015 7:08:58 GMT
Just put a 1k limit for 24hrs - simple!, no need for discussion (or moaning..)
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madpierre
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Post by madpierre on Sept 29, 2015 7:57:27 GMT
Increasing the loan size only increases the risk so I won't be looking to buy any when it appears on the Secondary Market. And if I had managed to get some of the loan I would not be best pleased to have the risk increased on a loan I had already subscribed to. That is not fair practice. I can accept and sympathise with Andy's predicament and I know he means well but unless a bid restriction is put in place for these higher interest/short term loans then I will not be getting involved again. However the main thing I want to know is how the 'larger' bidder managed to type in all those noughts and still get in early enough
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