bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Oct 13, 2015 8:13:48 GMT
FT - City veteran warns over P2P IsaHe no longer owns Bestinvest - he sold it in 2007. According to the article he has P2P investments, and encourages his clients to 'dip their toes in the water'. However, he doesn't think that it is mainstream enough to be given the status that ISA inclusion will afford until it has been through a full market cycle at its current scale. My guess is he is too late, unless there is a significant failure in the next six months. |
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Post by planteria on Oct 13, 2015 8:36:17 GMT
the impression i have is that he may be too late too, bigfoot but perhaps he is right that P2P ought to mature before being given an ISA wrapper, which will give it a credibility in the eyes of the public. i'm just learning, so perhaps more wary than i ought to be  |
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Oct 13, 2015 8:55:52 GMT
but perhaps he is right that P2P ought to mature before being given an ISA wrapper, which will give it a credibility in the eyes of the public. i'm just learning, so perhaps more wary than i ought to be Welcome, and you are right there is much to be wary of. Go slow and allow some time read information here. Personally I am torn. If ISA investors are allowed to invest in Antofagasta and Glencore why not some P2P. I would like my P2P investments inside an ISA. But you are right perhaps the credibility given by the ISA product is too much given how little history there is. And how far will rates fall as the platforms struggle find suitable loans to meet demand? Or will some platforms find unsuitable loans to meet the demand?
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JamesFrance
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Post by JamesFrance on Oct 13, 2015 9:40:12 GMT
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Post by ablrateandy on Oct 13, 2015 10:28:05 GMT
I agree with the above. There is a substantial risk to the industry by "mainstreaming" the product. That's not to say that other ISA-eligible investments aren't risky (I can name 3 "retail bonds" that I think should NOT be on the ORB for example) but there are obvious problems with where ISAs will force platforms to go.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Oct 13, 2015 10:33:31 GMT
It may be that there will be no specific p2p ISA, but a general Innovative Finance ISA. The title should act as a warning but they could be regulated to insist on headline warnings about risk.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Oct 13, 2015 10:48:15 GMT
Wow, I had this as well; wasn't it based on a "Slater" investment theory?. I managed to dodge the Marconi bullet but did end up with some duds such as Tate & Lyle and Blue Circle Cement. On a positive note it did give me a salutary lesson in the benefits of diversification!
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 13, 2015 11:12:43 GMT
I suppose my thought is that P2P is fine inside an ISA. The problem is that the P2P platforms lobbied hard for a separate ISA so that that it could be marketed as an alternative to cash ISAs. I think this is a terrible decision; P2P should have been inside an S&S ISA so that people could see that it was more comparable in risk terms to bond funds, and not an alternative to a cash ISA. I'm doubtful that with "light touch regulation" the FCA will be able to ensure that investors will know that this is not "saving" but investing in risky assets. I'm also not sure that every little P2P company should be allowed to run a P2P ISA unless they can demonstrate capital adequacy, operational robustness and even profitability. If that was the reason for their lobbying it was a bad reason. But I agree with the decison. The systems and skills required for a stockbroker/funds platform are quite different from those required of a p2p platform. If p2p was inside a S&S ISA then the only way in would be through third party funds with another layer of charges.
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Post by davee39 on Oct 13, 2015 11:18:45 GMT
P2P Platforms do not pay commissions to financial advisers, no wonder they prefer investors to look elsewhere.
The ISA is a helpful development, but here needs to be an improvement to the sign up process so a risk warning in clear large letters is displayed and agreed.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 13, 2015 20:34:22 GMT
Personally I am torn. If ISA investors are allowed to invest in Antofagasta and Glencore why not some P2P. Can't we already? S&S ISAs can invest in shares/funds like P2P Global, Victoria Park Speciality Lending, GLI Finance, Ranger Direct Lending, etc., etc.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Oct 13, 2015 20:38:29 GMT
Sure mikes1531 you are right and in fact I have. But it is mainly US, includes equity and I have little idea exactly what I am exposed to. |
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upland
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Post by upland on Oct 14, 2015 6:57:25 GMT
I like Mr Spiers , he actually warned about the problems of 2007 well before in one of the Bestinvest reports , he is worth listening to. All that I hope from a p2p ISA is that it gets rid of platform worry. Losing money on investments like with S&S is par for the course (I lost on Marconi too). Overall after diversification I have made modest money in p2p , the losses have not been too onerous and the diversification discipline welcome. I am a bit concerned that as with whole loans/ institutional money the ISA funds flowing in will depress returns but this whole industry is still evolving fast.
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Post by willUP on Oct 14, 2015 12:54:35 GMT
"However, Mr Spiers argues the relative illiquidity of peer-to-peer debt is a “fundamental difference” from stocks and bonds."
Slightly confused by this statement. Lack of liquidity is EXACTLY the reason there's going to be a 3rd ISA, rather that P2P being included in the existing stocks and shares ISA.
Unless I'm missing something, this seems curiously misinformed. The debate around this point has happened. There is a difference and a solution has been found.......A 3rd ISA wrapper, the IFISA!
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Post by lb on Oct 14, 2015 15:23:55 GMT
"However, Mr Spiers argues the relative illiquidity of peer-to-peer debt is a “fundamental difference” from stocks and bonds." Slightly confused by this statement. Lack of liquidity is EXACTLY the reason there's going to be a 3rd ISA, rather that P2P being included in the existing stocks and shares ISA. Unless I'm missing something, this seems curiously misinformed. The debate around this point has happened. There is a difference and a solution has been found.......A 3rd ISA wrapper, the IFISA! I may very well be wrong but isn't the main reason there is a '3rd' ISA to enable investors to now save MORE tax free if they use it? so they can now save ~ £45k per year (3 x ISA) instead of ~ £30k per year (2 x ISA). so they can save IFISA money in addition to, rather than instead of, S&S?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 14, 2015 17:11:08 GMT
"However, Mr Spiers argues the relative illiquidity of peer-to-peer debt is a “fundamental difference” from stocks and bonds." Slightly confused by this statement. Lack of liquidity is EXACTLY the reason there's going to be a 3rd ISA, rather that P2P being included in the existing stocks and shares ISA. Unless I'm missing something, this seems curiously misinformed. The debate around this point has happened. There is a difference and a solution has been found.......A 3rd ISA wrapper, the IFISA! I may very well be wrong but isn't the main reason there is a '3rd' ISA to enable investors to now save MORE tax free if they use it? so they can now save ~ £45k per year (3 x ISA) instead of ~ £30k per year (2 x ISA). so they can save IFISA money in addition to, rather than instead of, S&S?
No. You only get one allowance (15k) which you can split across the types not one allowance per type (45k)
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