ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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ISA
Oct 21, 2015 14:03:55 GMT
Post by ilmoro on Oct 21, 2015 14:03:55 GMT
Does the new structure have a loan contract between the borrower and lenders using the platform that specify things like the interest rate the borrower is paying? If that is what happens then the current iteration of new may do the job. If it's still "platform lends then refinances" then presumably not, unless the refinancing is replacing the initial loan contract entered into between platform and borrower with new ones between lenders and borrower. New T&Cs make reference to a contract being shown for each investment. No evidence as yet so contents unknown.
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james
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ISA
Oct 21, 2015 14:14:32 GMT
Post by james on Oct 21, 2015 14:14:32 GMT
Yup. I don't see any fundamental problem in resolving the matter if they want to get it done and I don't think that they are the only platform with the issue, MoneyThing is another that comes to mind.
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ISA
Oct 21, 2015 15:52:42 GMT
Post by meledor on Oct 21, 2015 15:52:42 GMT
Does the new structure have a loan contract between the borrower and lenders using the platform that specify things like the interest rate the borrower is paying? If that is what happens then the current iteration of new may do the job. If it's still "platform lends then refinances" then presumably not, unless the refinancing is replacing the initial loan contract entered into between platform and borrower with new ones between lenders and borrower.
Have you read the new T&C's at all? You seem to be making heavy weather of this point. Logon and read the link 'New Structure Details Available'
"Because of the fact that this will now be a true P2P platform, the onus of repayment lies with the borrower and is no longer covered by Lendy Ltd’s corporate guarantee."
"When we become a Pure P2P platform, you lend to the borrower via Lendy Ltd and a “nominee company” called Saving Stream Security Holding Ltd, holds the security on your behalf. The purpose of the nominee company is to manage the investment on behalf of all the Lenders so that the borrower only has to deal with a single entity rather than 1000’s of individuals which will constantly change as the loan parts are traded."
"These terms & conditions have been signed off by Grant Thornton and also Clarke Willmott LLP who confirm that this new structure will stand up as a P2P platform and your security will be treated as such."
And from the new T&Cs themselves:
7.8 "A Loan Contract is between the lender and the borrower. Saving Stream and/or Saving
Stream Security Holding has no liability in relation to the Loan Contract."
Clearly this meets the 36H requirements.
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james
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ISA
Oct 21, 2015 18:10:34 GMT
Post by james on Oct 21, 2015 18:10:34 GMT
I haven't yet seen a new loan contract. If they really are as described then that'll eliminate the most troublesome potential issues.
So far as P2P goes, there is a difference between being P2P and being 36H P2P, so if you want to be sure that a pure P2P platform is 36H P2P best to ask for a clear and unambiguous claim that it is from the platform. Platforms like Lendinvest and MarketInvoice are P2P and members of the P2PFA and would presumably want to be described as "pure" P2P, a term that has no legal or regulatory meaning, but not 36H P2P. Using non-regulatory terms is one potential way to leave the situation unclear, so I suggest asking for a specific 36H claim.
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ISA
Oct 21, 2015 20:39:59 GMT
Post by meledor on Oct 21, 2015 20:39:59 GMT
I haven't yet seen a new loan contract. If they really are as described then that'll eliminate the most troublesome potential issues. So far as P2P goes, there is a difference between being P2P and being 36H P2P, so if you want to be sure that a pure P2P platform is 36H P2P best to ask for a clear and unambiguous claim that it is from the platform. Platforms like Lendinvest and MarketInvoice are P2P and members of the P2PFA and would presumably want to be described as "pure" P2P, a term that has no legal or regulatory meaning, but not 36H P2P. Using non-regulatory terms is one potential way to leave the situation unclear, so I suggest asking for a specific 36H claim.
Are you really suggesting that the loan contract would contradict the T&Cs on such a fundamental point? By the way I do not recall seeing loan contracts on Thin Cats or Assetz - do you think they could have problems as well?
As regards ISAs Saving Stream is "planning for it" in a comment earlier in the thread so it clearly thinks loans under the new T&Cs are 36H agreements which is evidenced by the new T&Cs. Perhaps you are being rather pedantic?
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james
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Post by james on Oct 21, 2015 21:59:38 GMT
Are you really suggesting that the loan contract would contradict the T&Cs on such a fundamental point? By the way I do not recall seeing loan contracts on Thin Cats or Assetz - do you think they could have problems as well?
As regards ISAs Saving Stream is "planning for it" in a comment earlier in the thread so it clearly thinks loans under the new T&Cs are 36H agreements which is evidenced by the new T&Cs. Perhaps you are being rather pedantic?
The terms and conditions do not say that the loan contracts meet the 36H requirements. To the best of my knowledge SavingStream have never said that their loans, under old or new rules, meet the 36H requirements, with them being pure P2P the closest they have come, whatever they mean by that phrase. Have you seen one of the new loan contracts? What does it say? Perhaps you've never found problems in the loan documentation of a significant P2P lender. I have. I've also withdrawn some £30,000 I was going to invest because doing so would have required me to make a false declaration to the regulator when applying for a then-required permission that I would be complying with the Consumer Credit Act. The platform wasn't complying, so I couldn't either when using it. I'll hope that SavingStream's new approaches are 36H compliant The law is pedantic. Unless the agreement is 36H complaint it's not going to be ISA or loss deductible under the currently proposed rules. That's not just a pedantic detail, it can cost lenders a large amount of income tax. But maybe you also don't have the experience of the major P2P platform that said until corrected by a lender in 2009 that bad debts could be deducted from interest income on its consumer to consumer loans? I'll trust that SavingStream want it to happen but my experience with big P2P players is that they can sometimes get things significantly wrong in ways that cost lenders, borrowers or both on-trivial amounts of money. So I also look to verify.
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ISA
Oct 22, 2015 6:58:25 GMT
Post by meledor on Oct 22, 2015 6:58:25 GMT
James
The question remains. Do you think Assetz and ThinCats are 36H compliant without seeing the loan contract? Or are your comments solely aimed at Saving Stream for some reason?
I continue to think the scenario is laughable where the T&C's could say the contract is between the lender and the borrower (and therefore 36H compliant) yet up pops a loan contract that would say "No, no, no this contract is between the lender and the platform". But if it keeps you happy ...
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Post by savingstream on Oct 22, 2015 9:17:26 GMT
Our lawyers and Grant Thornton have confirmed that our loan contracts are 36H compliant and will be appropriate for ISA inclusion next year subject to the rules we have seen so far.
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Liz
Member of DD Central
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ISA
Oct 22, 2015 10:30:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by Liz on Oct 22, 2015 10:30:48 GMT
Our lawyers and Grant Thornton have confirmed that our loan contracts are 36H compliant and will be appropriate for ISA inclusion next year subject to the rules we have seen so far. Great news.
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james
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ISA
Oct 22, 2015 20:38:55 GMT
Post by james on Oct 22, 2015 20:38:55 GMT
Our lawyers and Grant Thornton have confirmed that our loan contracts are 36H compliant and will be appropriate for ISA inclusion next year subject to the rules we have seen so far. Thanks, that's excellent news!
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