wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Feb 7, 2016 17:54:22 GMT
Re: 19896 nick - see you are ignoring the 20% limit again - it is supposed to apply to everyone or do you feel you have/deserve some special exemption?
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Feb 8, 2016 14:40:55 GMT
Thanks folks, get the picture now. The fact that FC could, presumably, easily create a more even chance of allowing more investors the chance to land bids into such auctions - but don't - suggests to me that they have no interest whatsoever in the 'ordinary' investor. Sad really.
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acky
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Post by acky on Feb 8, 2016 15:17:51 GMT
Thanks folks, get the picture now. The fact that FC could, presumably, easily create a more even chance of allowing more investors the chance to land bids into such auctions - but don't - suggests to me that they have no interest whatsoever in the 'ordinary' investor. Sad really. That's right, and for "ordinary investor" read "anyone who's not a web programmer and therefore doesn't have a bot". There are probably quite a few "ordinary investors" like me who could and would invest substantially more money on the platform if the playing field was a little more even. As you say, sad.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 8, 2016 15:48:43 GMT
They've been offered at least a dozen suggested solutions to this problem (going right back to the days of actual auctions, when near the close fast bots would regularly crash the servers), and I've swapped emails with customer support on the issue for about 3 years now .. the basic problem is that FC don't see it as a problem. 8<. Or at least not one worth changing anything to fix (including releasing that API so everyone could have their very own bit-bot).
Heck they can't even police the rather pathetic 20% limit they currently have written down, which'd hardly be rocket science. Saner limits (like the 3 bids a minute the API was supposed to impose) remain a pipe dream.
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Post by nightmare on Feb 8, 2016 16:49:14 GMT
Has anyone considered that FC's solution to this problem may end being to take the candy away from everyone and drop the rates on Es by a couple of percent.
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Feb 8, 2016 17:17:45 GMT
Has anyone considered that FC's solution to this problem may end being to take the candy away from everyone and drop the rates on Es by a couple of percent. Projected returns after defaults would be too low then.
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Post by nightmare on Feb 8, 2016 19:00:51 GMT
Has anyone considered that FC's solution to this problem may end being to take the candy away from everyone and drop the rates on Es by a couple of percent. Projected returns after defaults would be too low then. Sorry I don't follow your logic. Surely the very fact that there is a mad scramble whenever an E loan is listed and people are quite prepared to buy them at a premium on the secondary market is a clear indication that they currently represent much better value than other loan bands and thus there is plenty of leeway for dropping the rates a bit.
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Feb 8, 2016 20:02:56 GMT
Projected returns after defaults would be too low then. Sorry I don't follow your logic. Surely the very fact that there is a mad scramble whenever an E loan is listed and people are quite prepared to buy them at a premium on the secondary market is a clear indication that they currently represent much better value than other loan bands and thus there is plenty of leeway for dropping the rates a bit. It depends whether you believe default rates will be much lower than the 8% per annum FC expects. Before fixed rates came in minimum bid rates were introduced to protect people from not taking default risk properly into account. At current rates, projected average returns for E loans may be a little higher than other risk bands but with a warning to expect higher volatility of returns. Bot buyers don't intend to own the parts for long enough to face the full default rate if any. If they were sure of buyers they might continue the same frenzy even at lower rates, but no one should want to own E parts long term at meaningfully lower rates if they believe the projected default rates. However, secondary market rates are not much lower than primary market rates. There are nearly 7000 parts available at 17.6% or better. You get time to look at what you're buying and your money isn't idle while the borrower decides whether they want it.
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Post by nightmare on Feb 9, 2016 9:19:05 GMT
Sorry I don't follow your logic. Surely the very fact that there is a mad scramble whenever an E loan is listed and people are quite prepared to buy them at a premium on the secondary market is a clear indication that they currently represent much better value than other loan bands and thus there is plenty of leeway for dropping the rates a bit. It depends whether you believe default rates will be much lower than the 8% per annum FC expects. Before fixed rates came in minimum bid rates were introduced to protect people from not taking default risk properly into account. At current rates, projected average returns for E loans may be a little higher than other risk bands but with a warning to expect higher volatility of returns. Bot buyers don't intend to own the parts for long enough to face the full default rate if any. If they were sure of buyers they might continue the same frenzy even at lower rates, but no one should want to own E parts long term at meaningfully lower rates if they believe the projected default rates. However, secondary market rates are not much lower than primary market rates. There are nearly 7000 parts available at 17.6% or better. You get time to look at what you're buying and your money isn't idle while the borrower decides whether they want it. "Bot buyers don't intend to own the parts for long enough to face the full default rate if any" (I would never have guessed ) which explains why "There are nearly 7000 parts available at 17.6% or better". Although you will probably disagree this is a simple case of supply and demand, at the moment the demand for E loan parts outweighs supply to a much greater level than other loan bands. So unless FC can somehow manage to increase supply then we either continue with the current situation (which personally I haven't got a problem with but it does seem to be the number one gripe for a lot of people) or FC reduces the demand by making E parts less attractive to would be investors.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 9, 2016 10:14:10 GMT
It depends whether you believe default rates will be much lower than the 8% per annum FC expects. Before fixed rates came in minimum bid rates were introduced to protect people from not taking default risk properly into account. At current rates, projected average returns for E loans may be a little higher than other risk bands but with a warning to expect higher volatility of returns. Bot buyers don't intend to own the parts for long enough to face the full default rate if any. If they were sure of buyers they might continue the same frenzy even at lower rates, but no one should want to own E parts long term at meaningfully lower rates if they believe the projected default rates. However, secondary market rates are not much lower than primary market rates. There are nearly 7000 parts available at 17.6% or better. You get time to look at what you're buying and your money isn't idle while the borrower decides whether they want it. "Bot buyers don't intend to own the parts for long enough to face the full default rate if any" (I would never have guessed ) which explains why "There are nearly 7000 parts available at 17.6% or better". Although you will probably disagree this is a simple case of supply and demand, at the moment the demand for E loan parts outweighs supply to a much greater level than other loan bands. So unless FC can somehow manage to increase supply then we either continue with the current situation (which personally I haven't got a problem with but it does seem to be the number one gripe for a lot of people) or FC reduces the demand by making E parts less attractive to would be investors. No, there is an obvious and much fairer solution, which is to prevent the small number of deep-pocketed, bot-enabled lenders from hoovering up the bulk of every small to medium-sized E loan in seconds, before anyone else gets a look in. If FC lenders were limited to buying 1% of any loan rather than 20% (the notional limit which is still abused on occasions), or else to 1 bid per minute, or 10 bids maximum, or then the situation would be much improved.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 9, 2016 10:53:42 GMT
As soon as defaults start getting close to the 8% forecast, I would expect the popularity of E loans to decline somewhat. Give it a few more months.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on Feb 9, 2016 11:35:28 GMT
I have been taking away some cash from FC over last few months to diversify a little and just had a lovely email asking why? I also had an option to explain - I included an element of what has been put here as well as some other issues I have. Hopefully they may look at it but not so sure - From this forum it looks like I am not the only one taking cash away but they keep lending more money every month and keep filling the loans so why should they worry Controversial point to let more people have a chance - Reduce the interest rates on C/D/E loans? - it makes their lenders happy, makes their lenders affordability issue better and they will still fill up 'E' loans as say 16-17%. As said before though still awaiting to see what the real default rate will be on these in two years time!
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Post by davee39 on Feb 9, 2016 12:26:42 GMT
I have been taking away some cash from FC over last few months to diversify a little and just had a lovely email asking why? I also had an option to explain - I included an element of what has been put here as well as some other issues I have. Hopefully they may look at it but not so sure - From this forum it looks like I am not the only one taking cash away but they keep lending more money every month and keep filling the loans so why should they worry Controversial point to let more people have a chance - Reduce the interest rates on C/D/E loans? - it makes their lenders happy, makes their lenders affordability issue better and they will still fill up 'E' loans as say 16-17%. As said before though still awaiting to see what the real default rate will be on these in two years time! They will not keep filling large A+ and A loans at current rates. They are clearly struggling to find enough autobid cash to clear the current sheet. Rather than lower rates, lets see more A+ correctly assigned as B or C, with higher rates for A+, A & B.
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Feb 9, 2016 12:37:29 GMT
I have been taking away some cash from FC over last few months to diversify a little and just had a lovely email asking why? I also had an option to explain - I included an element of what has been put here as well as some other issues I have. Hopefully they may look at it but not so sure - From this forum it looks like I am not the only one taking cash away but they keep lending more money every month and keep filling the loans so why should they worry Controversial point to let more people have a chance - Reduce the interest rates on C/D/E loans? - it makes their lenders happy, makes their lenders affordability issue better and they will still fill up 'E' loans as say 16-17%. As said before though still awaiting to see what the real default rate will be on these in two years time! I've just got that email too - Who said Fawlty Castellations don't care?
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dawn
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Post by dawn on Feb 9, 2016 13:05:30 GMT
I've just received that email as well
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