arbster
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Post by arbster on Nov 11, 2015 14:28:10 GMT
I see lots of sites I've never heard of, but no sign of Money Thing or Saving Stream. RS easy victory then; westonkev have you nobbled the poll! I think it might be a case that we are not in the list since we only launched in February? (Looks like I will have to get some mugs produced for next year's poll!). I figured there was some kind of Blatter-esque pre-selection process that you'd failed to adhere to, along with SS and FS.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Nov 11, 2015 18:01:48 GMT
I think it might be a case that we are not in the list since we only launched in February? (Looks like I will have to get some mugs produced for next year's poll!). I figured there was some kind of Blatter-esque pre-selection process that you'd failed to adhere to, along with SS and FS. Need to bribe the organisers(Russian?) with a few mugs. Maybe it's mugs for mugs for site members.
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Post by petebutt43 on Nov 15, 2015 14:58:08 GMT
Probably me. Getting 14% + after only six months, even with defaults ( which have a high recovery rate anyway). the big bugbear is Euro!!!
AS Bondora give a rolling rate over the last 12 months, my 14% probably equates to around 28%. It will probably be less than that, but more than any UK platform i have seen so far!!
What are peopl;es objections i wonder. Can someione enlighten me?
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 15, 2015 21:59:49 GMT
Probably me. Getting 14% + after only six months, even with defaults ( which have a high recovery rate anyway). the big bugbear is Euro!!! AS Bondora give a rolling rate over the last 12 months, my 14% probably equates to around 28%. It will probably be less than that, but more than any UK platform i have seen so far!! What are peopl;es objections i wonder. Can someione enlighten me? I started about 18 months ago, and I have something like 20% of my loans in recovery, I have lost money. The dashboard figures are just pulling wool over your eyes. It might be that you have benefitted by starting later and thus missed their irresponsible phase when they lent to a large number of bad borrowers in Spain and Slovenia
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james
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Post by james on Nov 16, 2015 5:14:26 GMT
Getting 14% + after only six months, even with defaults ( which have a high recovery rate anyway). the big bugbear is Euro!!! AS Bondora give a rolling rate over the last 12 months, my 14% probably equates to around 28%. It will probably be less than that, but more than any UK platform i have seen so far!! What are peopl;es objections i wonder. Can someione enlighten me? Where do you get that 14% number from? The rate Bondora gives pretends that there will be 100% recovery of all capital not yet in missed payments from all defaulted and late loans with no cost, even though they know that recovery is not going to be 100% and that there are going to be debt collection costs deducted from any recovered money. Why do you believe that defaults have a high recovery rate? What numbers or written claims have caused you to have that impression? Just to give you some idea, the rate Bondora gives for me is about 25% but the rate I calculate is more like 17% in Euros or 6.7% in Pounds. The difference is that I assume no collection from defaulted loans and 100% collection from late loans. Bondora's is wildly optimistic, mine's somewhat optimistic because many of the lates are long term late with lack of payments or long interest only periods. You won't be able to get numbers close to mine, I was one of the earlier non-Estonian lenders and have only Estonian loans. Don't believe the Bondora number. It's useless for determining how things are really going. You can use these searches to determine the capital value of the loans that have defaulted and loans that are late. While 6 months is a bit young to see the true picture of how many loans that are going to default this should at least give you some better idea of how you're really doing. At the moment it's likely that you're well into negative territory for your returns and will never emerge from that. Because the Bondora number ignores loses until each individual repayment becomes due and isn't made they will continue to report positive numbers for you until something like 1/3 to 1/2 of the average term for your loans has passed. However long it takes for the total value of the missed capital payments from defaulted loans to become greater than the interest from those that were/are still paying. In effect they have arranged their numbers to present the best possible picture and keep investors thinking things are doing well for a year or two even while their losses accumulate. Long enough to sucker people in with more of their money based on the flattering return claim. If you want some sad "fun", start tracking the totals for amount invested, Bondora's return claim, the total capital value of defaulted loans and the total capital value of late loans.
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james
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Post by james on Nov 16, 2015 5:44:58 GMT
To give you one of the more extreme examples of Bondora's claims, there's a loan made in April 2014. Bondora's notes to investors a year ago once said "To initiate criminal proceedings" but they have removed this entry from the loan details page now shown to lenders. No payments have ever been made on this loan. Here's how this loan counts in the return calculation that Bondora uses for say a €25 original amount lent:
€4.29 of capital in missed payments is treated as missed, lowering the return. €20.71 of capital in future payments treated as going to be made on time.
None of these payments have been made.
Most lenders would assume that all or almost all of the €25 is lost and adjust their returns accordingly. In about three to four more years so will Bondora, once all of the future payments have not been made. Until then Bondora will continue to present an overly positive picture by pretending that the full loss hasn't happened, just the capital of the monthly payments.
Maybe there will be some positive result from the "criminal proceedings" but I'm not planning on getting any money back from this loan.
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Nov 16, 2015 6:43:39 GMT
Maybe there will be some positive result from the "criminal proceedings" but I'm not planning on getting any money back from this loan. Based on what I've read on this forum in the past weeks, there ought to be a whole different set of "criminal proceedings" underway...
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