agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 22, 2015 17:56:10 GMT
Currently over 150 loans on offer on the SM. One organisation has about 20 offerings valued at over £200k.
Anyone know why there is so much on offer?
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dave
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Post by dave on Oct 22, 2015 18:46:45 GMT
Also possibly TCL's winding down at end of their term.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 22, 2015 19:43:38 GMT
or even mainly TLCs that need to liquidate.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 22, 2015 19:50:30 GMT
Quite so. See the discussion on TC's old forum.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Oct 23, 2015 8:31:23 GMT
Even more now. Could also be that if the new s/w comes into effect, it'll be more expensive to sell on the SM, for larger amounts, because there's no cap on the selling fee. So if you were thinking of selling, now would be the time to do it. Sure, but only 18 (out of 151) DOs are over £7k5, and more than half would have been better off waiting for the new software. It is very frustrating, TC have all those loans and not enough investors, and AC have plenty of investors and no loans!
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Post by beatthesystem on Oct 23, 2015 18:00:20 GMT
Even more now. Could also be that if the new s/w comes into effect, it'll be more expensive to sell on the SM, for larger amounts, because there's no cap on the selling fee. So if you were thinking of selling, now would be the time to do it. Sure, but only 18 (out of 151) DOs are over £7k5, and more than half would have been better off waiting for the new software. It is very frustrating, TC have all those loans and not enough investors, and AC have plenty of investors and no loans! Clearly AC & TC need to merge.
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 23, 2015 18:38:47 GMT
Sure, but only 18 (out of 151) DOs are over £7k5, and more than half would have been better off waiting for the new software. It is very frustrating, TC have all those loans and not enough investors, and AC have plenty of investors and no loans! Clearly AC & TC need to merge. The vast majority of TC loans wouldn't meet AC's requirements for security. That is the crux of the problem of loan/investor inbalances ... for both platforms. Many TC borrowers have assets that could be charged/pledged to support PG's ... but that is not TC's way of doing things so many TC loans are underpriced for the risk exposure. The flipside is many borrowers are very wary of providing supported PG's so view AC's proposition as too great a risk to their personal wealth and go elsewhere. For the benefit of relative newcomers to p2b loans, unsupported personal guarantees (PG) generally are not worth the paper they are written on, and only rarely will they yield any significant value if the loan defaults.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 24, 2015 8:03:04 GMT
Clearly AC & TC need to merge. The vast majority of TC loans wouldn't meet AC's requirements for security. That is the crux of the problem of loan/investor inbalances ... for both platforms. Many TC borrowers have assets that could be charged/pledged to support PG's ... but that is not TC's way of doing things so many TC loans are underpriced for the risk exposure. The flipside is many borrowers are very wary of providing supported PG's so view AC's proposition as too great a risk to their personal wealth and go elsewhere. For the benefit of relative newcomers to p2b loans, unsupported personal guarantees (PG) generally are not worth the paper they are written on, and only rarely will they yield any significant value if the loan defaults. I think the two platforms could learn from each other. AC have set themselves up to be hyper-cautious, which they think is what lenders want, but it can be counter-productive and I'm not sure it adds value. TC could certainly learn from AC on communications (and perhaps on the management of defaults, although I think this is mostly a communications issue) but I prefer the broader diet on offer. Your first sentence is less true than it was. For better or for worse, TC is increasingly dominated by property (or quasi-property) loans that would not look out of place on AC. If (as I suspect) they are on TC because AC's systems and processes get in the way, that is AC's problem and not TC's. For loans to "real" businesses, AC's track record to date is no better than TC's (and my personal experience is worse). I always look to the business first and the security second, and I always ask myself why the banks won't lend. I may lend on good propositions even if the security is weak, and I'm less jaundiced than you about unsupported PGs. I try not to lend to flaky businesses or people, regardless of the security. The sponsor is relevant too, and I like the fact that TC's sponsors are relatively close to the borrowers (not least because it helps with the "people" question). I get better information for my decision making on TC. Not perfect, but better. As regards pricing for risk, each to his own. Some loans are underpriced, and some I'd not touch at any price. But I'm in more than a few which you would reject. (Famous last words...)
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Oct 24, 2015 9:50:55 GMT
...I like the fact that TC's sponsors are relatively close to the borrowers... This was my main reason for leaving. I don't think that there is anyone on my side. Too much of the process has been handled by the borrower's agent. Things might be getting better with the appointment of Jill Sandford, time will tell. And once TC have a their new platform up and running and I have a better idea who owns TC and what their plans are I might return.
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 24, 2015 10:57:05 GMT
A slight footnote to my previous post which I typed prior to reading the latest 3 TC offerings.
Full marks to L**gate on the Lad*** loan for the brutal honesty (my emphasis) "This loan is offered at a 15% rate to reflect the unsecured nature and desire for a quick drawdown ..." (just a pity TC have insisted its a reverse auction so lenders can offer less than even this skimpy rate ). Doesn't FC offer rates of 18%+ for the their lowest grade unsecured loans ....
Only slightly less transparent is L**gate on the Beaut**** **** retail concession "Personal guarantee to be taken from the shareholder directors [ ~~~ ] Lenders should note that a charge is not being taken and the interest rate reflects this." What the 15% rate doesn't relect is this business appears to be at the whim of a major department store providing floor space, a department store not renowned for its loyaty to concession holders if a better proposition presents itself.
And finally, again Lud****, this time 14% reverse auction Foc*** Ltd providing a 2nd charge in support of the PG. Right idea, pity the available equity to the second charge is only a third of the loan size, and most of that equity is likely to be wiped out in a firesale of the property.
All three of those loans are essentially unsecured. If the businesses fail the debentures are unlikely to cover any meaningful assets. I'm not totally averse to investing in unsecured loans (but I wouldn't touch any of those three it has to be said). However, I would never ever put £1000 into a single unsecured loan. That is the other part of TC's investor/loan inbalance - £1000 is just to great for a gamble for most people.
At present I have no losses on TC, and no provision for doubtful positions. My AC loanbook (over twice the size of TC) again has no losses but I have assigned loss provisions against a couple of my loans (Optics - overvalued fixed assets + unsupported PG; G** - possible misappropriation in relation to company assets + unsupported PGs). However I have only a few hundred in each (less than 20% of my normal per loan exposure for well secured loans).
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 24, 2015 11:06:53 GMT
I was mostly wrong, as dave and bracknellboy say, it's the maturing TCL12. So the big organization selling up is in fact TCL 12, which has to sell all it loan parts as it's reaching it's maturity date?
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 24, 2015 11:19:40 GMT
I was mostly wrong, as dave and bracknellboy say, it's the maturing TCL12. So the big organization selling up is in fact TCL 12, which has to sell all it loan parts as it's reaching it's maturity date? Correct. Well actually its both TLC12 and TLC12a both of which meant to fully redeem in the near future. Most sane people have expected the liquidation would be staggered over the last 2 or 3 months, but at least one of these was still buying new loans as recently as July IIRC. Unfortunately for TC there has been no major influx in new lenders in the 2 years or so these two TLC's have been live. Hence there isn't that much pent up demand for the DO's from new lenders who weren't around when the underlying loans went live.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 24, 2015 12:37:37 GMT
So the big organization selling up is in fact TCL 12, which has to sell all it loan parts as it's reaching it's maturity date? Unfortunately for TC there has been no major influx in new lenders in the 2 years or so these two TLC's have been live. Hence there isn't that much pent up demand The TCL's take up quite a hefty position in loans with their initial investments, so I guess £45k in the diamond man is going to be difficult to shift. Will they just let things run past the sell out date, or will the need to offer loan parts at a discount to shift them?
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 24, 2015 13:53:46 GMT
Unfortunately for TC there has been no major influx in new lenders in the 2 years or so these two TLC's have been live. Hence there isn't that much pent up demand The TCL's take up quite a hefty position in loans with their initial investments, so I guess £45k in the diamond man is going to be difficult to shift. Will they just let things run past the sell out date, or will the need to offer loan parts at a discount to shift them? They'll just let things drift I imagine. In any case the distressed loans they hold can't be sold on the SM so a clean exit of the TLC's anytime soon isn't possible.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Oct 24, 2015 15:05:33 GMT
But sales for the TLC loans is very slow, so the SM could be flooded for months, especially with more TLC's needing to unwind soon. This is bad if you need liquidity.
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