Investor
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Post by Investor on Nov 24, 2015 22:55:38 GMT
Might be worth a reminder to all that although westonkevRS has declared an association with Ratesetter as per the forum rules, he is not on this forum as a Representative of Ratesetter (irrespective of what his avatar tag might imply). He participates on this forum as a lender to not only Ratesetter but other P2P platforms, in fact last time I visited the Ratesetter office I seem to remember that he had more invested in Ratesetter's biggest competitor than in Ratesetter itself, not sure if this is still true! I have always welcomed his input and the responses we receive to questions that he is able to answer without compromising his unique position. I wonder if I would offer so much of my time if I were in his position, given the abuse he has historically received by those who believe he actually speaks for Ratesetter on this forum. Don't forget you can always email Ratesetter directly with these queries, in the same way you can email your high street bank and ask them for a breakdown of what rates they are lending the money you have in your monthly access savings account earning 0.1% out to their 5 year term customers at.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 25, 2015 0:05:26 GMT
Might be worth a reminder to all that although westonkevRS has declared an association with Ratesetter as per the forum rules, he is not on this forum as a Representative of Ratesetter (irrespective of what his avatar tag might imply)... I take that with a pinch of salt. Westonkev's presence must be at least semi-official because RS are happy for him to be here - and for him to spend time on the forum during the working day . His status is nevertheless a helpful semi-fiction, as it enables him to speak more frankly than he otherwise might - albeit there are limits, as we have seen. I can well understand that RS won't want to disclose the details of their treasury management, because it is commercially sensitive, and it's probably also where they make a lot of their money. The liquidity risk is clear to anyone who reads the Ts&Cs etc. It's also clear that RS have tools to manage the risk and are all too keenly aware that if they fail it could be the end of RS (as a retail platform anyway). Whether those tools prove to be sufficient only time will tell, but I trust them to do a decent job. As I've said before, if you absolutely MUST have the liquidity then don't put your cash in the monthly market. I use it for cash waiting for a longer term home. The cash that I might need is in the bank.
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alender
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Post by alender on Nov 25, 2015 0:07:29 GMT
Investor, as you say I could email my bank but is pointless as I have no interest in their lending strategy as I am protected by the FSCS guarantee, also I can easily check on the bank’s Tier 1, 2, 3, 4 ratios, stress tests etc. to ascertain risk. For the record most of my Bank deposit are earning between 3% and 5%.
Just to make it clear personally have not accused Kevin of anything; however he has accused people of starting conspiracy theories, nefarious intent etc. for asking uncomfortable questions.
In general like you I have welcomed his input and I learnt some good things from his answers. However he seems very willing to answer soft questions which make Ratesetter look good but starts to make accusations against people who raise uncomfortable points/questions. If you have nothing to hide give us the full information and we can then make rational investment decisions.
I must admit I thought he did speak for Ratesetter as his tag states he is a “Representative of Ratesetter”.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 0:28:10 GMT
Indeed, accusing customers with legitimate but uncomfortable questions of having 'nefarious intent' etc is hardly in keeping with the spirit of transparency, is it?
As a fairly new poster too, I have no history with Kevin either, so found the tone of that response rather peculiar. Almost seemed to me as if the questions were too close for comfort.
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Post by westonkevRS on Nov 25, 2015 6:19:41 GMT
Indeed, accusing customers with legitimate but uncomfortable questions of having 'nefarious intent' etc is hardly in keeping with the spirit of transparency, is it? As a fairly new poster too, I have no history with Kevin either, so found the tone of that response rather peculiar. Almost seemed to me as if the questions were too close for comfort. @eurasian69, it is about the tone. I read your historical posts and the first 20 were straight in with quite an aggressive tone. All about RateSetter, no other platform. Not many posters join and start in such a way. Lots of dire warnings, CAPITAL highlights, etc. It hasn't looked like the usual behaviour or questions of normal posters. I appreciate the written word can be misinterpreted, but if you read back perhaps you'll come to the same conclusion. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to DM me your email or user ID for RateSetter and I'll call you personally? Kevin.
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Post by westonkevRS on Nov 25, 2015 6:57:59 GMT
However he seems very willing to answer soft questions which make Ratesetter look good but starts to make accusations against people who raise uncomfortable points/questions. If you have nothing to hide give us the full information and we can then make rational investment decisions. I must admit I thought he did speak for Ratesetter as his tag states he is a “Representative of Ratesetter”. The use of the monthly money has always been clear on the main lending page, T&Cs and here. Discussions about the Provision Fund, coverage ratio and "resolution events" have been covered ad finitum on these threads. Although admittedly it's hard to define the event because it isn't defined, this will be reactive to events. Repeating the same questions over and over isn't helpful, the recent tone has the appearance of just scare mongering. RateSetter doesn't want to have official representation on this forum, and if it did it would be a sanitised bland marketing driven version, with replies 24hrs later signed off by multiple "stakeholders". I'm trusted enough, slightly knowledgeable enough and relatively senior that my presence here is tolerated. Largely because I'm a P2P fan and I hang out here anyway. In fact its a pain because I'd love to ask some other platforms questions, but cannot really. So yes monthly money is used for longer dated loans, always has. The vast majority of these are up to 2 years but a small minority are for longer. The Provision Fund hasn't had its best 6 months, but it remains the largest and strongest and we aim to get back on track to increase it. The natural ebb and flow of a small lender can result in volatility and an element of luck. Fraud remains very very low by industry standards, we have a zero business tolerance risk on fraud risk. Liquidity is managed, and we have multiple levers to ensure the PR disaster of a lock-in doesn't occur. Nobody knows exactly when we'd call a resolution event, hopefully never. If anyone has a new question, shoot. Otherwise, RateSetter is low risk but not no risk. Only lend what you can afford to lose or have tied-up. But hopefully our 5+ years track record of delivering what we promised buys us some trust. Kevin.
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Post by jackpease on Nov 25, 2015 7:31:53 GMT
I watch this thread slightly weary as Westonkev is treading the same path as Andrew Holgate before in that attempts to engage and be honest work really well but at some point both of them are finding that there is a limit to how much detail they can provide and how much they can repeat that there is always a risk. Meanwhile platforms that don't engage or just stick to the odd fact here and there don't get their business model and risks dissected.
Wasn't Ratesetter voted the most trusted p2p platform on another thread? Many believe it has the least platform risk of the lot.
We can choose whether we post and pursue a point but sympathies with Westonkev/Holgate as I don't think all questions could or should be answered as forensically as is sometimes demanded. There reaches a point where we just have enough information to decide whether to trust/not trust a platform.
Jack P
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 7:46:32 GMT
@eurasian69 , it is about the tone. I read your historical posts and the first 20 were straight in with quite an aggressive tone. All about RateSetter, no other platform. Not many posters join and start in such a way. Lots of dire warnings, CAPITAL highlights, etc. It hasn't looked like the usual behaviour or questions of normal posters. I appreciate the written word can be misinterpreted, but if you read back perhaps you'll come to the same conclusion. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to DM me your email or user ID for RateSetter and I'll call you personally? Kevin. Kevin, with respect, I have no idea why you think I should be mentioning other platforms. I'm solely a RateSetter customer in the P2P space for serious money (I have a trivial balance with Zopa), and so my concerns are solely with my risks with respect to RateSetter. If my tone was too aggressive for you, it is simply because of my genuine shock at discovering that RateSetter can unilaterally extend monthly lenders out to 5 years. I had read the T&Cs, understood the part about the potential extension to 12 months, but beyond that took me by surprise. And reading this thread, it seems I was not alone in my concerns once I understood the full extent of the clause in question. I'm a newbie to RateSetter but I'm not a newbie to the credit or financial arena, and have experienced the ugliness of past credit stress events at close hand, where good intentions go out the window, track records during benign economic times mean little, and harsh financial reality rules. This may explain why my posting history does not fit that of a 'normal' new poster, if such a thing exists.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Nov 25, 2015 8:33:52 GMT
I watch this thread slightly weary as Westonkev is treading the same path as Andrew Holgate before in that attempts to engage and be honest work really well but at some point both of them are finding that there is a limit to how much detail they can provide and how much they can repeat that there is always a risk. Meanwhile platforms that don't engage or just stick to the odd fact here and there don't get their business model and risks dissected. Wasn't Ratesetter voted the most trusted p2p platform on another thread? Many believe it has the least platform risk of the lot. We can choose whether we post and pursue a point but sympathies with Westonkev/Holgate as I don't think all questions could or should be answered as forensically as is sometimes demanded. There reaches a point where we just have enough information to decide whether to trust/not trust a platform. Jack P +1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 9:15:04 GMT
And that point of adequate information differs from person to person. RateSetter or its 'representatives' can obviously choose whether or not to answer.
But using terms like 'nefarious intent' to describe concerned customers sends out a different message altogether.
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alender
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Post by alender on Nov 25, 2015 9:47:33 GMT
However he seems very willing to answer soft questions which make Ratesetter look good but starts to make accusations against people who raise uncomfortable points/questions. If you have nothing to hide give us the full information and we can then make rational investment decisions. I must admit I thought he did speak for Ratesetter as his tag states he is a “Representative of Ratesetter”. The use of the monthly money has always been clear on the main lending page, T&Cs and here. Discussions about the Provision Fund, coverage ratio and "resolution events" have been covered ad finitum on these threads. Although admittedly it's hard to define the event because it isn't defined, this will be reactive to events. Repeating the same questions over and over isn't helpful, the recent tone has the appearance of just scare mongering. RateSetter doesn't want to have official representation on this forum, and if it did it would be a sanitised bland marketing driven version, with replies 24hrs later signed off by multiple "stakeholders". I'm trusted enough, slightly knowledgeable enough and relatively senior that my presence here is tolerated. Largely because I'm a P2P fan and I hang out here anyway. In fact its a pain because I'd love to ask some other platforms questions, but cannot really. So yes monthly money is used for longer dated loans, always has. The vast majority of these are up to 2 years but a small minority are for longer. The Provision Fund hasn't had its best 6 months, but it remains the largest and strongest and we aim to get back on track to increase it. The natural ebb and flow of a small lender can result in volatility and an element of luck. Fraud remains very very low by industry standards, we have a zero business tolerance risk on fraud risk. Liquidity is managed, and we have multiple levers to ensure the PR disaster of a lock-in doesn't occur. Nobody knows exactly when we'd call a resolution event, hopefully never. If anyone has a new question, shoot. Otherwise, RateSetter is low risk but not no risk. Only lend what you can afford to lose or have tied-up. But hopefully our 5+ years track record of delivering what we promised buys us some trust. Kevin. Kevin as I have said on balance I am happy with Ratesetter and particular in the area of the provision fund and vetting of borrows, so far it is a positive experience. However like eurasin69 I have been around a long time been through a number of crashes, lost money from time to time. I have worked most of my life in Banks, mostly Investment Banks and part of my job was to ask difficult questions, just for the record I never liked the direction Banks took after the turn of the century. Once I found that short term money was used for longer term loans it looked like Deja vu all over again, been there seen it. My reason for these points/questions is to find out as much as possible about this area as it is of concern to me. I would be grateful if you could provide as much information in this area as you are allowed to do. I personally would like to know how the funds are allocated i.e. the average proportion that goes to 1 month, 1 year and longer and the average term length funded by the 1 month and 1 year market. If you are not allowed to do this for reasons of confidentiality I will/must accept this as I have no evidence of ulterior motives and I understand as you work for Ratesetter there is a limit to what you can disclose.
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pom
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Post by pom on Nov 25, 2015 10:51:39 GMT
Kevin, with respect, I have no idea why you think I should be mentioning other platforms. I'm solely a RateSetter customer in the P2P space for serious money (I have a trivial balance with Zopa), and so my concerns are solely with my risks with respect to RateSetter. If my tone was too aggressive for you, it is simply because of my genuine shock at discovering that RateSetter can unilaterally extend monthly lenders out to 5 years. I had read the T&Cs, understood the part about the potential extension to 12 months, but beyond that took me by surprise. And reading this thread, it seems I was not alone in my concerns once I understood the full extent of the clause in question. I'm a newbie to RateSetter but I'm not a newbie to the credit or financial arena, and have experienced the ugliness of past credit stress events at close hand, where good intentions go out the window, track records during benign economic times mean little, and harsh financial reality rules. This may explain why my posting history does not fit that of a 'normal' new poster, if such a thing exists. Maybe he realised from the detail of questions that you know a lot about finances and assumed you must be engaged with other platforms.... personally I'm a little surprised that with all that experience you're keeping your p2p eggs in so few baskets. Perhaps instead of maybe trying to find the best platform you maybe need to accept that any/every platform could potentially have problems if the circumstances are right and spread yourself around a bit more.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 11:17:22 GMT
Maybe he realised from the detail of questions that you know a lot about finances and assumed you must be engaged with other platforms.... personally I'm a little surprised that with all that experience you're keeping your p2p eggs in so few baskets. Perhaps instead of maybe trying to find the best platform you maybe need to accept that any/every platform could potentially have problems if the circumstances are right and spread yourself around a bit more. I am planning to add more money to other platforms in future. RateSetter is simply the platform I chose to start with. The fact that this is considered suspicious behaviour in conjunction with detailed but uncomfortable questions is just weird.
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mike
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Post by mike on Nov 25, 2015 11:30:10 GMT
@eurasian69 The big question I have for you is who shot JFK? Was it a conspiracy?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 25, 2015 11:35:49 GMT
Let me start by saying that I really appreciate the input provided by westonkevRS (and all the other platform representatives that inhabit these boards). In no small part they are responsible for my increased lending across some of the platforms available. There are going to be times when they reach the limit of what they are willing to, or can, discuss. Equally there are going to be times when there are disagreements. That's not always a bad thing. We are after all dealing with crowds, and they need to be informed by differences of opinion . I do think this discussion has been interesting. I still don't understand how monthly markets on RS work, for instance when I look at what I think Kev means by "the main lending page" I don't see anything at all that tells me there might be circumstances in which my money could be locked in at the monthly rate I achieved for much longer than a month. Looked at from the inside everything might be completely obvious and transparent. Looked at from the outside, even as a somewhat informed and sophisticated investor, it is less so. RS may not be able to do anything much about it (for instance I suspect that were they to take a different approach there might not even be a monthly term product), but I do think RS face reputation and conduct risk in this space - there are going to be people who do not understand the maturity risks, and do not understand the consequences of how "lend right now" works. Lastly I tend to agree with @eurasian69 in that if RS is making a margin on the difference between short and longer term rates it's very deposit taking bank-like behaviour, even with the appearance of it being P2P and RS just being the intermediary. If it looks like a duck (pays 3% short term), swims like a duck (lends at 6% longer term) and quacks like a duck (pockets the 3% difference), then it might as well be on the golf course in the afternoon . RS could address this by having us lend short term to RS itself. That way RS explicitly take on the maturity risk rather than leave it with potentially unaware lenders (yes, it's described in the Ts+Cs but how many people actually read them and think about them?). Of course then it wouldn't be P2P, and RS would face capital and regulatory requirements that it avoids by taking this approach.... My suggestion would be, in addition to having lawyers scrutinise the way everything works, to get the proverbial "man on the Clapham omnibus" to as well. Because I don't think it's actually as clear as RS think it is. Anyway, you'll all be pleased to know that I am now talked out . I'll be sticking to three and five years for now. Which is a shame, I'd like a good monthly product.
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