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Post by ladywhitenap on Dec 2, 2015 10:51:29 GMT
Having spent more time that I perhaps should watching the page refresh for SM investment opportunities to appear only to realise my arthritic fingers are just not fast enough to grab more that a tiny portion of one loan, I wonder about the feasibility of a pre-fund EOI for the SM.
Each lender could mark loans that they would be prepared to fund if it were to come available on the SM. Some sort of algorithm could then allocate the EOIs.
Snags could be:
1. Excessive fragmentation of loan parts - so set a minimum allocation
2. Lenders being over committed if a large number of loan parts turned up on the SM - so perhaps limit the total per lender to the amount of cash held on account at the time.
3. Possible favouring of long standing EOIs and exclusion of new lenders - use random number scheme to pick the new purchasers of loan parts linked to 1 above.
eg set a minimum allocation at say £25. if say £160 part loan comes available on the SM, 7 (160/6 rounded up) EOIs are selected randomly and allocated 6 x £25 and 1 gets £10
Currently, I think most people would agree that buying on the SM is not very satisfactory (although near perfect for a seller) for investors but Would the above work out better? I tend to think so but would be interested in other views as well as how SS would view it.
The only other scheme would be to learn how to write a bot but that does not seem a fair way ahead and too many bots could bring the site down - so lets eliminate that approach.
Let the discussion begin!
LW
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Post by solicitorious on Dec 2, 2015 11:03:59 GMT
Yes, I was thinking along those lines.
Randomization of eligibility to buy a loan part, and
Instead of allowing shrapnel parts, lock a loan until a decent amount is built up on the SM, say £1000, then allow a max purchase of say 10% per successful buyer. You would need a release mechanism late in the evening to cover exceptions.
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Post by meledor on Dec 2, 2015 11:09:11 GMT
We need to avoid SS becoming like AC at all costs! I am not interested in loan parts unless above a certain amount (far higher than the £25 amount suggested). If this was introduced I would cease to use the SM market because of the fragmentation.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 2, 2015 11:13:15 GMT
"...lock a loan until a decent amount is built up on the SM, say £1000, then allow a max purchase of say 10% per successful buyer....
The problem with locking a loan is that anyone selling £100 will have to wait, maybe a very long time, until some other people want to sell £900.
I think all purcheses on the SM should be limited to cash actually available in the account; no buying then putting money in (or selling something else to cover) later.
The problem with fragmentation is that SS parts are all individual, however small. Why can't a separate single "parts bought on the SM" part be allowed for each loan for each lender, which accumulates, then can be sold on later as a single entity?
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huxs
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Post by huxs on Dec 2, 2015 11:13:55 GMT
Sounds like a sensible idea to me.
I would suggest keep it simple and allocate on a queue system with a minimum amount as you suggested, so £500 comes up for sale and the first 10 people in the queue get £50, they then go to the back of the queue if they are still looking for more.
Obviously many flaws with any solution and this could be criticised as having too small a minimum or people used to sitting and pressing F5 not getting as much as they used to but would be fairer to all I think?
While I have managed to get a good number of loan parts on the SM since the new site has gone live (without too much pain) I do like the idea that I can just set my required amount per loan and let SS distribute anything that comes up for sell. This will totally remove the risk of bots hogging the SM like they seemed to do in the final few weeks of the last website as well as level the playing field for those who are not able to be on SS all day everyday.
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Post by solicitorious on Dec 2, 2015 11:18:45 GMT
The problem with locking a loan is that anyone selling £100 will have to wait, maybe a very long time, until some other people want to sell £900. I think all purcheses on the SM should be limited to cash actually available in the account; no buying then putting money in (or selling something else to cover) later. The problem with fragmentation is that SS parts are all individual. Why can't a separate single "parts bought on the SM" part be allowed for each loan for each lender, which accumulates, then can be sold on later as a single entity? Maybe, but a release mechanism, at say 10pm, would cover the situation of 'orphan' loan parts, which I guess would be quite rare.
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Post by ladywhitenap on Dec 2, 2015 11:33:55 GMT
We need to avoid SS becoming like AC at all costs! I am not interested in loan parts unless above a certain amount (far higher than the £25 amount suggested). If this was introduced I would cease to use the SM market because of the fragmentation. I'm not familiar with AC but I certainly don't favour a platform like the one Zopa has become where investor have no choice over where their money goes. I like to view a loan and assess if I want involvement or not. The £25 was just really as an example but I would not want an SM scheme that excludes the smaller investors either we all have to start somewhere. Out of interest have you managed to buy sizeable amounts on the SM on the new site? I haven't yet  I've set a budget for my exposure to asset backed P2P and it is taking too long to get it placed IMHO. LW
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Dec 2, 2015 11:36:42 GMT
I think it's a supply and demand issue resulting from an influx of new members anxious to increase their holdings and diversify. Not that long ago a bit of patience on the website would aid that now you also need a fastest finger. I think most new investors will have to be patient and diversify gradually through the pre- fund option which in my view is excellent. I've picked up very few parts on the SM in the last few months, not through lack of trying, but pre-fund and a reasonable deal flow is maintaining my diversification.
There is a healthy pipeline, and SS are suggesting there will be possible oversupply (presumably only for some loans), it remains to be seen whether this will improve the SM but I hope it will. Whilst the system isn't ideal and is definitely out of kilter at the moment, I really can't think of anything that will restore the balance more (barring bad news) than increased deal flow. AC 's shrapnelator doesn't even work for me anymore, even though I have a minor investment there and hence low targets, because of the very poor deal flow.
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Post by ladywhitenap on Dec 2, 2015 11:51:57 GMT
Developing the loan locking comments above, I feel that perhaps a time lock for algorithmic distribution of SM offers say once per day might work or Once per day unless a value threshold was exceeded to cover the case of vigorous SM activity.
LW
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Post by highlandtiger on Dec 2, 2015 12:25:53 GMT
Why change anything. loans put on SM sell in seconds, which is perfect.
If you want to up your total loan amount with SS, then just keep buying new loans as they come up.
I'm more than happy with the way things are.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 2, 2015 12:29:29 GMT
This is my post from another thread:
Perhaps buying on the SM should be limited to £100 per purchase in any (three?) minutes (or 10% of the total amount available if above £1000), and only one place in the queue at a time for the buyers. That way, any bot or keyboard shortcut would immediately go to the back of the Q after its first purchase, leaving some left for subsequent lenders.
Automated SM buying is in progress. The several steps to buying a part cannot physically be done on a keyboard, let alone the interaction with the site completed for those steps in the < one second it takes me to go from the loan appearing on the screen to the "this loan is 100% funded", which is what happens most of the time.
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Post by meledor on Dec 2, 2015 13:25:20 GMT
We need to avoid SS becoming like AC at all costs! I am not interested in loan parts unless above a certain amount (far higher than the £25 amount suggested). If this was introduced I would cease to use the SM market because of the fragmentation. I'm not familiar with AC but I certainly don't favour a platform like the one Zopa has become where investor have no choice over where their money goes. I like to view a loan and assess if I want involvement or not. The £25 was just really as an example but I would not want an SM scheme that excludes the smaller investors either we all have to start somewhere. Out of interest have you managed to buy sizeable amounts on the SM on the new site? I haven't yet I've set a budget for my exposure to asset backed P2P and it is taking too long to get it placed IMHO. LW
On AC for the loans I was interested in I struggled to get anything other than shrapnel over a number of weeks. It just was not worth it considering the work I did in evaluating the loan.
Today I tried the SM on the new site for the first time and yes I managed to pickup a £400 loan part. It took me a few attempts to be successful but I think it can be done with persistence.
The good thing about the current situation with the SM is that the strength of demand is highly visible and instant, which is reassuring should I need to sell down my holding in a hurry. With the changes proposed it becomes more complex and 'behind closed doors'. On AC with its system of setting a target for each loan on the SM I have no way of seeing supply and demand.
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mike
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Post by mike on Dec 2, 2015 13:42:59 GMT
Maybe locking out a specific user for xx minutes until they can make another purchase might work?
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 2, 2015 17:10:11 GMT
The good thing about the current situation with the SM is that the strength of demand is highly visible and instant, which is reassuring should I need to sell down my holding in a hurry. I worry that too many people will start presuming that the SM will always have an excess of demand and thus mean instant sales of any parts offered. There are £18M of loans in the pipeline at the moment, and if most of those come through before Christmas -- SS have said that loans shown on the Pipeline list all are well-progressed -- it's very possible IMHO that the supply/demand balance will go in the other direction and people will find themselves unable to dispose of parts in a hurry. If that means some parts allocated to pre-bids can't be paid for by SM sales and have to be rescinded, that would compound the problem. "Past performance is not necessarily a good indicator of future performance."
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 2, 2015 17:15:08 GMT
The good thing about the current situation with the SM is that the strength of demand is highly visible and instant, which is reassuring should I need to sell down my holding in a hurry. I worry that too many people will start presuming that the SM will always have an excess of demand and thus mean instant sales of any parts offered. There are £18M of loans in the pipeline at the moment, and if most of those come through before Christmas -- SS have said that loans shown on the Pipeline list all are well-progressed -- it's very possible IMHO that the supply/demand balance will go in the other direction and people will find themselves unable to dispose of parts in a hurry. If that means some parts allocated to pre-bids can't be paid for by SM sales and have to be rescinded, that would compound the problem. "Past performance is not necessarily a good indicator of future performance." I think that this would be a situation that will not last long.
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