Investboy
Member of DD Central
Trying to recover from P2P revolution
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Post by Investboy on Dec 10, 2015 10:22:38 GMT
Long thread, I've skipped last 4 pages so apologies if similar suggestion have been made
1. I don't like 10% portfolio limit. You can still game the system or cause issues to smaller investors. Examples: beginning investor who has 0 loans, and 0 portfolio - he will never be able to invest as 10% * 0 = 0. Small investor who started recently, has 2 loans of 200 and wants to trickle 200 in each loan to slowly build his/hers portfolio - his limit will be 40. Medium guy, has 20,000 portfolio and wants 500 in each loan can still game the system and has 2k prefunding hoping to get around his 500 target. Big guy with 1M+ portfolio will be able to swallow whole loan up to 100k.
2. I think the "most fair" is the idea presented by SS originally for pre-funding. Everyone interested gets some minimum, even if it s 50-100. Whats left gets distributed among others up to their max bid. Examples Loan 100k, 4 bids: A-50k, B-50k, C-50k, D-50k. Result: minimum allocation=100k/4 - everyone gets 25k Loan 100k, 4 bids: A-100, B-1k, C-2k, D-5k. everyone gets what they want, rest goes on the market Loan 100k, 4 bids: A-100, B-1k, C-10k, 100k. Result: A gets 100, B gets 1k, C gets 10k, D gets 88,9k Loan 100k, 5000 bids: everyone will get 20. There will be no gaming the system, no wasting time, no fast fingers anymore.
3. Keep the "overdraft" facility. One of the best features of SS. Myself atm have a firm limit, no new investments. So for new loan part I'm selling bits of other loans.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Dec 10, 2015 10:24:58 GMT
#SavePreFunding
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beechside
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Post by beechside on Dec 10, 2015 10:26:30 GMT
I urge patience, rather than changes to the system. Why are SS so popular? - Good rates
- Strong track record
- Simple system
For those looking to complicate matters, remember that the demand is not just due to the return but due to the total offering. Loans on the book at the moment are £59m and there are £16m in the pipeline. That's quite an increase. When I was impatient, an experienced forum member told me that SS has always oscillated between feast and famine. Since then, I've got all I wanted. I don't see anything wrong with the system, though I will acknowledge that patience is required. Applying Occam's Razor to systems design nearly always results in the best system and, if you take a 4-week view, you should be able to load your portfolios. Remember that SS collect all the interest up front, meaning that taking a large position in a new loan is not an exposure. You can trade that over time with prefunding and diversify. From everything in a single loan two months ago, I now have 20 loans and a good spread. I don't think 2 months is a long period to achieve that but I realise that your mileage might vary, as our American cousins say. . .
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Post by smrutib on Dec 10, 2015 11:38:43 GMT
Remember that SS collect all the interest up front, meaning that taking a large position in a new loan is not an exposure. I have seen this mentioned a couple of times on this board. Is it mentioned somewhere in their T&Cs? Or did their representative mention it on this board? Thanks
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beechside
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Post by beechside on Dec 10, 2015 11:49:40 GMT
I haven't seen it myself but another forum member says he got an email from Tim at SS. Here's a link to the post in question: p2pindependentforum.com/post/47776Hope that helps...
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freddy
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Post by freddy on Dec 10, 2015 13:52:21 GMT
I haven't seen it myself but another forum member says he got an email from Tim at SS. Here's a link to the post in question: p2pindependentforum.com/post/47776Hope that helps... Just read that. Really useful, thank you.
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freddy
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Post by freddy on Dec 10, 2015 14:09:01 GMT
I urge patience, rather than changes to the system. Why are SS so popular? - Good rates
- Strong track record
- Simple system
For those looking to complicate matters, remember that the demand is not just due to the return but due to the total offering. Loans on the book at the moment are £59m and there are £16m in the pipeline. That's quite an increase. When I was impatient, an experienced forum member told me that SS has always oscillated between feast and famine. Since then, I've got all I wanted. I don't see anything wrong with the system, though I will acknowledge that patience is required. Applying Occam's Razor to systems design nearly always results in the best system and, if you take a 4-week view, you should be able to load your portfolios. Remember that SS collect all the interest up front, meaning that taking a large position in a new loan is not an exposure. You can trade that over time with prefunding and diversify. From everything in a single loan two months ago, I now have 20 loans and a good spread. I don't think 2 months is a long period to achieve that but I realise that your mileage might vary, as our American cousins say. . . Excellent post. I too started investing with SS just a couple of months ago. In that period I have managed to spread my investment over 24 loans. With what's currently in the pipeline I anticipate that spread increasing to 30 by month end. Sure there have been pockets of frustration but overall I think it's a good platform with damn good returns. I don't have much of an investment strategy and try to keep things simple. I try to ensure that no investment in a single loan exceeds my total yearly return after tax. That way I could stand one default with no return, without loosing any of my capital. Sure I'd have lost a years interest but I was getting B****r All from the bank, so I'd live with it. As many have said before, 12% return cannot be risk free.
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ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Dec 10, 2015 14:21:14 GMT
SS loans are generally underwritten so I cannot see that holding back for a day or two would be a problem. If the facility to invest and earn interest on money not paid in was not already provided I doubt that anyone would expect or request it. No other platform (or indeed any other financial organisation TIKO) offers this. If it is so good for both parties I wonder why not. It was brought in because of the time that was being taken to get money transferred in the early days, WAS requested, and was instrumental in bringing early growth to the platform. Since then the world has changed, it is true, although I still value it. The most professional of my share dealing brokers actually offers a very similar system (TDW - massive organisation operating in many countries) - I can purchase shares up to a value of a certain limit and only need to get the money to pay for them in to the account 2 days later. The limit available to me depends on the size of the account at any given time and the amount of free cash already there, according to some calculation that I have never bothered to try and fathom, so in that respect it is not as simple and open-ended as the SS system. Another poster mentioned a few days ago that they have a brokerage account that operates a similar system. So, although it's unusual in p2p, it's certainly not unheard of in the wider finanacial world.
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gt94sss2
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Post by gt94sss2 on Dec 10, 2015 15:40:54 GMT
My assumption (unproven until tested) is that lenders would not transfer in as much as they are prepared to pre-fund under the current arrangements. I also assume that transfers are completely automated so there is no use of resources. Your assertion that The main problems pre-funding solves are... You don't have to produce your money until you know how much you owe makes no sense to me. Why is that a problem? How does pre-funding solve it? Can you elaborate? I suspect your assumption is incorrect and that withdrawals from SS do require manual intervention. When withdrawing funds in the past, it has always taken longer if I do it at the beginning of the month (just after the interest run) rather than at other times. On the AC board, they have also stated withdrawals with them have a manual element and Ablrate's boss is probably wishing that the system they used to allocate a loan this week - which also required bids to be funded fully in advance was different - given he has also had to type in the withdrawal requests manuallyFunding pledges/bids fully in advance leads to the situation I find myself in with Ablrate atm. I got 37% of what I bid for with them - and despite requesting the remaining 63% be withdrawn immediately yesterday lunchtime - got an email today saying the request had now been processed but it might take another 3 working days for the funds to reach me.. meaning I have not been able to access those funds since I originally transferred them across - and that was with the benefit of knowing when the loan was going live. Moving funds in advance also means I miss out on other opportunities given the funds are tied up (for no real purpose)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 10, 2015 16:04:38 GMT
Another poster mentioned a few days ago that they have a brokerage account that operates a similar system. So, although it's unusual in p2p, it's certainly not unheard of in the wider finanacial world. I think it's a lot more common than 'not unheard of' in stockbroking. It may be a bit different now that a lot of trading is done online and Faster Payments and debit cards are readily available to nearly everyone, but the standard used to be that the 'settlement' day was some time after the 'trade' day. (It probably helped if the trader had an established relationship with the broker.) In America, settlement used to be five days after the trade, but that was switched to three days not that long ago. No doubt some of the senior members here can correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC this country used to do settlements only fortnightly. If you bought shares near the end of the fortnight you had to settle pretty quickly, but if you bought at the beginning of the fortnight you had nearly two weeks to come up with the cash to cover your purchases. PS. I think settlement timing also is a function of what security is being traded. The above comments are based on share trading, and AIUI trading of bonds and options have different rules.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 10, 2015 16:51:37 GMT
... because you don't know WHEN a new loan will launch and WHICH ONE of the pipeline it will be (nor do SS until pretty much the last minute)... The above is the part that I really don't understand about SS's operation. When loans are made, the funds aren't really needed until the loan draws down. There have been rare occasions when a SS loan drew down very soon after being made live, but that isn't normal. Thankfully for SS -- who have committed to pay interest to lenders from the date of investment rather than the drawdown date -- the era of having long delays between going live and drawing down is in their past. It's more usual these days for drawdown to occur maybe a week or so after a loan goes live. (I think this is the result of the support SS have from their lenders, so they can count on loans being funded quickly these days so they don't need to start the funding process so far in advance of the need.) What I specifically don't understand is what exactly triggers the go live decision. And why SS couldn't set the go live date 48 hours or so after the loan is assigned a PBL number. Presuming the particulars and valuation can be made available at the time the loan is numbered, lenders then would have time to do a bit of DD if they wish and decide on their level of pre-funding. It might reduce the 'buy first and decide later whether to keep it' behaviour the current system seems to encourage. And it would save SS a couple of days of interest -- but perhaps that's inconsequential in the big picture. And SS still would have their loans funded in advance of drawdown. What am I missing? On a related subject, comments have been made that all SS loans are underwritten. I know that at the bottom of every set of particulars it says "Lendy Ltd has full underwriting in place for this loan if necessary." But I can't help wondering if that isn't just left over from earlier particulars, as it seems so unnecessary in the current environment. Why spend money for underwriting that isn't going to be needed? Perhaps all it means is that SS/Lendy know where they could get underwriting if they were to need it and is meant simply to reassure lenders that once a loan goes live it's pretty sure to happen. Or perhaps SS/Lendy have built up enough working capital that they can effectively underwrite all their loans themselves.
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Dec 10, 2015 16:51:28 GMT
I urge patience, rather than changes to the system. Why are SS so popular? - Good rates
- Strong track record
- Simple system
For those looking to complicate matters, remember that the demand is not just due to the return but due to the total offering. Loans on the book at the moment are £59m and there are £16m in the pipeline. That's quite an increase. When I was impatient, an experienced forum member told me that SS has always oscillated between feast and famine. Since then, I've got all I wanted. I don't see anything wrong with the system, though I will acknowledge that patience is required. Applying Occam's Razor to systems design nearly always results in the best system and, if you take a 4-week view, you should be able to load your portfolios. Remember that SS collect all the interest up front, meaning that taking a large position in a new loan is not an exposure. You can trade that over time with prefunding and diversify. From everything in a single loan two months ago, I now have 20 loans and a good spread. I don't think 2 months is a long period to achieve that but I realise that your mileage might vary, as our American cousins say. . . Excellent post. I too started investing with SS just a couple of months ago. In that period I have managed to spread my investment over 24 loans. With what's currently in the pipeline I anticipate that spread increasing to 30 by month end. Sure there have been pockets of frustration but overall I think it's a good platform with damn good returns. I don't have much of an investment strategy and try to keep things simple. I try to ensure that no investment in a single loan exceeds my total yearly return after tax. That way I could stand one default with no return, without loosing any of my capital. Sure I'd have lost a years interest but I was getting B****r All from the bank, so I'd live with it. As many have said before, 12% return cannot be risk free. Couldn't agree more with both beechside & freddy. After initial frustrations, accepting the need to be realistic about grabbing some crumbs from a very popular cake and taking on board the various thoughts/tips on these threads, it's not too hard to figure the optimum times/situations to hit the SM. Similarly, I only started on SS in late September and have now managed to get a decent sum (5 figs) in, with a nice even spread across 41 loans. I'm still in the 'building up' phase but I'm pretty happy with it so far. No, I haven't played at silly-multiples pre-bids and I don't sit here getting F5 RSI for hours on end. A little and often. Plenty of patience. Bots? Dunno. Sure you need to be quick but it's quite do-able. With 5500+ investors, if only 5% are looking that's a lot of fingers! The pipeline is very encouraging and I'm looking forward to the next one ! What might be nice to know is how many savingstream anticipate to go through this side of xmas? Not looking for promises!
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Post by martin44 on Sept 21, 2016 17:26:13 GMT
Anyone enlighten please.. all 3 loans showing -10 days.... live date was 14/12/15 for 12 months.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Sept 21, 2016 17:33:50 GMT
Anyone enlighten please.. all 3 loans showing -10 days.... live date was 14/12/15 for 12 months. I can try There are two banks of Gloucestershire Loans (same Borrower)... > Bank 1 - PBL039, PBL038, PBL037 : 12 Month Loan which drewdown 19/06/15 > Bank 2 - PBL071, PBL070, PBL069 : 12 Month Loan which drewdown 14/12/15 A couple of months ago <will insert date here later> Bank 1 had it's term extended, while on the same day bank 2 had its term reduced. SS never provided an explanation to why this occurred, but it was assumed that SS transferred some of the interest held with Bank 2 to, to extend Bank 1 (to then match the terms).
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Post by martin44 on Sept 21, 2016 17:43:49 GMT
Anyone enlighten please.. all 3 loans showing -10 days.... live date was 14/12/15 for 12 months. I can try There are two banks of Gloucestershire Loans (same Borrower)... > Bank 1 - PBL039, PBL038, PBL037 : 12 Month Loan which drewdown 19/06/15 > Bank 2 - PBL071, PBL070, PBL069 : 12 Month Loan which drewdown 14/12/15 A couple of months ago <will insert date here later> Bank 1 had it's term extended, while on the same day bank 2 had its term reduced. SS never provided an explanation to why this occurred, but it was assumed that SS transferred some of the interest held with Bank 2 to, to extend Bank 1 (to then match the terms). cooling_dude thanks, that makes it a bit/lot clearer, i was a little puzzled as to why lendy ltd placed their charge over the pbl070 in june 2015, 5 months prior to the valuation.
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