ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Apr 27, 2017 11:44:34 GMT
One reason why the platform may not discourage 'over' valuations is to get the business. Quite regularly the loan is for purchase and pp/legal costs so a residual valuation could be greater than purchase & the platform bags their execution fee. There are many reasons some parties find Over-Valuations acceptable, and none of them are acceptable! NEVER been an Under-Valuation has there??!!!! Strange that. 
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 27, 2017 12:48:20 GMT
One reason why the platform may not discourage 'over' valuations is to get the business. Quite regularly the loan is for purchase and pp/legal costs so a residual valuation could be greater than purchase & the platform bags their execution fee. There are many reasons some parties find Over-Valuations acceptable, and none of them are acceptable! NEVER been an Under-Valuation has there??!!!! Strange that. How would you know? Presumably any that were under-valued would have little problem refinancing away.
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am
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Post by am on Apr 28, 2017 10:22:51 GMT
Would it worth the moderators moving the recent discussion of VRs into a separate thread?
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Post by masquedefer on Apr 28, 2017 12:46:49 GMT
Agreed.
I originally started this discussion in a separate thread but although general in nature it did concern the Glos loans so moderator removed it to that folder and told nobody.
@ Moderator - Please can you put it in a new thread possibly under the title "Defaulting loans - Recovering losses from valuation surveyor"
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Post by harryvederci on Apr 28, 2017 13:06:46 GMT
sorry but that proposed thread title is possibly the worst thing you can do in my opinion.
Remember this forum is in the public domain and can be read by anyone, including borrowers, brokers, solicitors, surveyors and their insurers engaged by the platforms. One lender already rendered itself toxic last year by promulgating shotgun litigation tactics with their website opening stating that they could/would claim from professionals in the event of shortfall, word goes around and they fairly shortly achieved bargepole status with very few willing to take on any work for them.
The forums are a great resource for kicking the val reports around but be careful what you wish for - leave the recoveries side to the lender to whom the solics/surveyors are bound, not the investors
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Apr 28, 2017 13:15:07 GMT
sorry but that proposed thread title is possibly the worst thing you can do in my opinion. Remember this forum is in the public domain and can be read by anyone, including borrowers, brokers, solicitors, surveyors and their insurers engaged by the platforms. One lender already rendered itself toxic last year by promulgating shotgun litigation tactics with their website opening stating that they could/would claim from professionals in the event of shortfall, word goes around and they fairly shortly achieved bargepole status with very few willing to take on any work for them.The forums are a great resource for kicking the val reports around but be careful what you wish for - leave the recoveries side to the lender to whom the solics/surveyors are bound, not the investors Great isn't it, so they closed ranks to protect their cosy little "Industry". What were they so afraid of if their VRs were reasonably honest & accurate in the first place? Oh, and with salient, material facts included. This is not a dig at you btw harryvederci, I know you're only making a comment.
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Post by harryvederci on Apr 28, 2017 13:18:33 GMT
no problem with me ozboy, just pointing out how warmongering could turn counterproductive for recoveries & the platforms
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Apr 28, 2017 13:27:33 GMT
no problem with me ozboy, just pointing out how warmongering could turn counterproductive for recoveries & the platforms Understood, but how to Clean Up the VR Industry? The few are making the many look very bad, I'd have thought RICS would sort it out but like most "Professional Bodies" they take no action.
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Post by harryvederci on Apr 28, 2017 13:32:09 GMT
fwiw I thought another p2p summed the position up very well in answer to a question as below
A professional negligence claim cannot be pursued until a loss has been crystallised. If there are realisation avenues available, such as properties, personal guarantees, bankruptcies that have not run to an end, then a loss cannot be crystallised.
Lenders will also need to consider (again, not specific to this loan): whether the loss is actually worth being pursued relative to any costs/fees in doing so; who actually funds such action; and pertinently, if negligence can actually be proved. For example in relation to the latter point, can it actually be proven that a valuation was over-valued leading to drawdown of a loan or did market conditions, events, neglect, treatment by an owner lead to a realisation lower than would be hoped for.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 28, 2017 13:34:45 GMT
So, valuers consider themselves beyond action for unprofessional standards. Smug b*******. I think the likes of Lendy (and other platforms, especially the good ones) who want to continue using lenders' money should be the recipients of as much criticism as possible when it comes to accepting spurious valuations. Bring it on! The platforms might eventually receive so much justified public abuse that they will eventually learn to say to a borrower/introducer who provides "convenient" valuations in order to actually borrow 100% (or more? think of Tenanted Office Block) of real LTV, "unacceptable valuation, = bovine excreta, so try again, or no loan."  Oooooo.........porcine glider alert!  |
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Apr 28, 2017 13:51:54 GMT
Not enquiries, I made a serious, direct Complaint. My memory is slightly vague now but I believe that because it wasn't me who Instructed the Surveyor I couldn't make the Complaint, or some such. RICS basically couldn't wash their hands of it and shut it down quick enough IMHO. Can't caste aspersions on one of their fine, upstanding and "Professional" Members can we? If RICS really wanted to get to grips with this Oh So Obvious, err, "problem", they would and should investigate Complaints regardless of who Instructed, but they don't, and won't, AFAIK. It's called "The System" I believe. It "protects" us I believe. |
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Apr 28, 2017 14:05:50 GMT
Yeah, they're SO committed, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy yet again.
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Post by masquedefer on Apr 28, 2017 14:33:49 GMT
The current sale price will not cover the loan plus interest plus recovery costs. The current sale price is a de facto, real world current valuation (just look at all the big national agents who are marketeing the property, their sale valuation will not be far out). - This assumes the property has not deteriorated over the loan period, the market has certainly not fallen.
The original valuer has overvalued by about 40%. This is far beyond the permitted valuation bracket. I agree the loss will not be crystallised until the sale and we will neet to wait until then. All I am talking about is LL/SS's recovery policy at this stage i.e. in instances when a loss is highly likely and due to blatant valuer negligence. I believe the surveyor should not be used again and put on notice as to a likely claim, so he will inform his current PII.
I have alerted LL/SS to my concerns by their website messaging service. So what next?
BTW Does anybody know if SS/LL use their own list of valluers or if they accept valuations commissioned by borrowers/brokers?
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Post by masquedefer on Apr 28, 2017 15:21:55 GMT
sorry but that proposed thread title is possibly the worst thing you can do in my opinion. Remember this forum is in the public domain and can be read by anyone, including borrowers, brokers, solicitors, surveyors and their insurers engaged by the platforms. One lender already rendered itself toxic last year by promulgating shotgun litigation tactics with their website opening stating that they could/would claim from professionals in the event of shortfall, word goes around and they fairly shortly achieved bargepole status with very few willing to take on any work for them. The forums are a great resource for kicking the val reports around but be careful what you wish for - leave the recoveries side to the lender to whom the solics/surveyors are bound, not the investors
I see Paul's R's update email today proudly talks about the upstream DD procedure. What about the downstream process for default cases? If LL/S.S could provide some reassurance that proper default recovery procedures are in place (including chasing negligent advisers) then that might help. Also can SS/LL confirm that they select and pay the valuation surveyor directly and not the borrower or introducing broker. Also if debt recovery is an option on some loans why should all investors suffer by LL/SS using the general reserve fund to make up the shortfall? As for valuation surveyors not working for lender's who might sue them...... That is certainly not the case. Trust me!
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spiral
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Post by spiral on Apr 29, 2017 6:38:13 GMT
Also if debt recovery is an option on some loans why should all investors suffer by LL/SS using the general reserve fund to make up the shortfall? Because if the PF is depleted for a loan that you are not part of, that money is not available to bail out any loans that you are a part of.
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