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Post by gemel on Dec 15, 2015 19:19:38 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 15, 2015 20:41:21 GMT
Anybody else thinking of 117 and 138? Sutton isn't very far from Nine Elms, but in London a small distance can make a very big difference.
They were certainly clearly described as "higher risk" and "dependent on achieving a sale at the right price" in the blurb, with the exec summary doc saying "far riskier proposition" in bold... The three exit strategies described in the exec summary doc did cover the eventuality.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 15, 2015 20:50:41 GMT
Just typical Standard sensationalist journalism.
Normal buyers don't want to buy off-plan, they want somewhere to live NOW. Any properties in Nine Elms that are marketed as available to be occupied immediately will be snapped up by real people, possibly for less than the off plan speculators paid, but so what. 60,000 is a drop in the ocean as to what is needed .... I'm a few miles downstream and the builders simply can't build fast enough.
The Nine Elms developments will sit on 2 new stations on the Northern Line Charing Cross branch extension. They are some of the most sought after properties in London, as were the adjacent ones in Vauxhall ten years ago when I was looking to buy - I lost more than one sealed bid before I gave up and headed east.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 15, 2015 20:56:35 GMT
Even so, the mortgage-tax offset and higher SDLT will certainly have a good chance of pricking the (utterly ludicrous, imho) bubble in That London - and people who are buying off-plan are primarily doing so off the back of that bubble.
Sensationalised futurology? But of course. Feasible? Certainly. Probable? Perhaps.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 14, 2016 12:34:06 GMT
Anybody else thinking of 117 and 138? Sutton isn't very far from Nine Elms, but in London a small distance can make a very big difference. They were certainly clearly described as "higher risk" and "dependent on achieving a sale at the right price" in the blurb, with the exec summary doc saying "far riskier proposition" in bold... The three exit strategies described in the exec summary doc did cover the eventuality. And here we are, nearly a year later. A reminder - the plan for those two was pay the deposit on a flat, off-plan, in a development in a none-too-glamorous south London suburb, then sell the reservation on for a premium. High enough risk that a separate risk statement was required from investors. Strangely, the market has changed a bit since they were launched last September. Can't think why. And so it's not selling. Oh, and the developer are doing too good a job, and they'll be ready in Jan, nine months ahead of schedule... So there's a vote just come out. 1. Walk away and lose the lot. 2. Sell at a discount. 3. SPV to raise the rest, and rent it for low yield. <shrug> Win some, lose some. Option 3 might be feasible for one, but both? A quick look back at the docs for 117 shows that the purchase was down as £345k for a two-bed 6th floor. Looks from RM like there's 8 2-bed and 1 1-bed for sale at the mo. Asking prices for the 2-beds vary... £345k (3rd floor), £380k (4th), £350k/£359k (6th), £370k (7th), £370k (9th), £375k (11th), £400k (12th). The 1-bed doesn't own up to which floor.
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Post by mrclondon on Nov 14, 2016 20:04:50 GMT
I'm not on THC so can only comment in general terms. Sutton is by no means a hopeless borough, as a skim read of Wikipedia's review of the borough will show. There are good train services into the centre (particularly when the Thameslink/London Bridge infrastructure project concludes in 2018), and direct train or coach services to Heathrow, Gatwick and Luton airports. I may be wrong, but I don't think Sutton is a particular favorite with any particular EU expat community, so no reason to expect demand will be especially weakened. I'm glad to hear THC made the risks with off-plan funding clear, however I think a cool head is needed at this point. I'd assume that such appartments in Sutton will be popular with couples working in the centre of London whose salaries can't stretch to the roughly double they would have to pay for Nine Elms (say). Even so £345k is a huge stretch for mortgage affordability / deposits and hence the phrase "generation rent". Inevitably there will be a glut of sales now if the completion payments are due in a couple of months time. That is what off-plan funders do, sell before the call for completion monies, and indeed what the plan from THC was to have been. To me the right strategy is blindingly obvious ... raise the funds to complete, let the properties until the building is fully occupied and there is minimal sales overhang, then sell after 1 or 2 years. There should be immediate and sustained rental demand for such appartments.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 14, 2016 22:23:30 GMT
To me the right strategy is blindingly obvious ... raise the funds to complete Indeed - but raising £550-600k for the two, on the promise of 2-3% yields might be tricky...
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pom
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Post by pom on Dec 2, 2016 16:32:27 GMT
To me the right strategy is blindingly obvious ... raise the funds to complete Indeed - but raising £550-600k for the two, on the promise of 2-3% yields might be tricky... It's fine, they just buried the net yield in the financials and quoted gross in the "at-a-glance".....
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 2, 2016 16:57:02 GMT
Indeed - but raising £550-600k for the two, on the promise of 2-3% yields might be tricky... It's fine, they just buried the net yield in the financials and quoted gross in the "at-a-glance"..... ...butbutbut... Est annualised yield - 8.56%! I'm not even gonna ask how they got that.
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pom
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Post by pom on Dec 2, 2016 17:15:05 GMT
It's fine, they just buried the net yield in the financials and quoted gross in the "at-a-glance"..... ...butbutbut... Est annualised yield - 8.56%! I'm not even gonna ask how they got that. Given I'm going to be using transcontinental scale bargepoles on this one I'm not gonna go back and have a look (but I bet that's including theoretically capital gain but missing out some rather non-avoidable costs)....but I do remember scratching my head as to how even after it had apparently all been added together the overall annual return in the financials was 1% lower than that on the at-a-glance. Gotta be impressed at the amount of work that must go in to finding so many different definitions of gross and net so they can then cherry pick the most attractive and meaningless for the headline rates PS is anyone here still investing with them?
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j
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Post by j on Dec 3, 2016 16:53:32 GMT
PS is anyone here still investing with them? Not for sometime but, tbf all my investments with them are from the old set-up of fixed yield (which they've been diligently paying) so, only waiting for the SPVs to mature to see what ROC will be, if any. So glad I'd missed out on this one as I remember it filled in double-quick time & I was cursing a little for not being able to invest at the time...phew!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 28, 2017 16:08:08 GMT
To me the right strategy is blindingly obvious ... raise the funds to complete Indeed - but raising £550-600k for the two, on the promise of 2-3% yields might be tricky... And, of course, they couldn't raise the funds for even the first one, HCP117. So it went on the market. And it's now completed... to the second potential buyer after the first one fell through... Only a 70% loss... <wince>
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pom
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Post by pom on Feb 28, 2017 22:33:49 GMT
Indeed - but raising £550-600k for the two, on the promise of 2-3% yields might be tricky... And, of course, they couldn't raise the funds for even the first one, HCP117. So it went on the market. And it's now completed... to the second potential buyer after the first one fell through... Only a 70% loss... <wince> Wow....
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 28, 2017 22:37:06 GMT
And, of course, they couldn't raise the funds for even the first one, HCP117. So it went on the market. And it's now completed... to the second potential buyer after the first one fell through... Only a 70% loss... <wince> Wow.... Invested Capital £62,000 Loss on investment (£25,000) Legal fees (£6,874) Sales Agent Fees (£11,520) Capital to return £18,606 Yes, that agent fee looks spectacular to me, too... 3.6% of the sale price.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 1, 2017 11:59:09 GMT
Yes, that agent fee looks spectacular to me, too... 3.6% of the sale price. And the reply...? <raises eyebrows>
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