bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jan 5, 2016 10:44:12 GMT
I am wondering what might happen later this year, has anyone got any thoughts, in particular:- - Will P2P ISA actually launch in April?
- Will some/many/most P2P companies be in a position to launch their ISA if it does?
- Will those ISAs allow existing P2P holdings to move across?
- Will those ISAs allow transfer in of existing ISAs?
- Will that much new money arrive, either more money from existing investors, or from new investors? Consider that the larger P2P platforms are taking institutional money in clips of £100m.
- Will other market changes help to balance the situation? For example, the requirement of banks to refer rejected SME loan applicants to an alternative source of finance.
- Any other thoughts?
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jan 5, 2016 10:44:36 GMT
I put my thoughts in another post so that it is easier to reply to the above post (without having to delete my ramblings).
a) I have no idea, have no inside track on anything, but I would have thought that we would have heard if things were going wrong, so I guess yes. b) I would expect many platforms to launch an ISA very quickly once they are allowed. It is likely that some are not as good as others, and some might not allow transfers in straight away. It will be interesting to see how this goes. c) I guess not, but some platforms (such as AC and SS) much transfers at par anyway so they might be able to do something clever. d) I'm sure they'll want to, but will they be able to straight away, I have no idea. e) I wont be bringing any new money to P2P. I might open a P2P ISA, but it will be funded by reducing other holdings. In fact I already have some P2P money in an ISA. Anyone out there with a cash ISA earning 1-2% would be better off paying the tax on the 4-12% they might earn on P2P. Why haven't they moved already? Will this nudge them? Might an ISA seem more respectable or somehow safer, perhaps? I don't think that it will be that much bigger than the money hitting platforms like FC. They just raised £150m for an investment trust. f) I think that the P2P referrals which are starting soon might be significant. I hope so. g) I think that there might be some big moves between platforms, for example if some platforms allow transfers in, and others don't allow this, or don't have an ISA. Should be fun.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 5, 2016 10:52:40 GMT
My worry is lack of diversification at least for the first couple of years. This is due to the fact that we can only have one ISA - i.e. a single platform. Alternatives? Well there is investUp that I am keeping an eye on. Problems with this? I cannot see my preferred sites, I do not know exactly how this is going to work, investUp is a very knew platform, I still have my ISA money going through a single platform even if invested on multiple platforms.
So . . . I have no idea at the moment how it is going to play out.
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james
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Post by james on Jan 5, 2016 12:18:02 GMT
My worry is lack of diversification at least for the first couple of years. This is due to the fact that we can only have one ISA - i.e. a single platform. Where have you seen mention of a single ISA manager or single ISA platform restriction for P2P? I've seen nothing that will change the usual adult ISA rule of an unlimited number of ISA managers for past tax year money and one for current year, each able to use an unlimited number of platforms if they desire. So plan ahead and at least use the full ISA allowance this year even if it takes a little short term borrowing, if you want diversification and don't currently have any ISA money. for those who have been regularly using ISAs the current year restriction to one ISA manager (however many platforms they allow) shouldn't matter much because they can split all of their past year money. For those who don't know the iSA rules that well: o ISA manager: the licensed ISA firm. Current year cash or S&S ISA money can be with only one manger for each. o Fund house or unit trust or P2P platform or savings account: one of an unlimited number of investments that an ISA manager can make available within a single ISA account. o A fund house can also operate its own ISA manager and if you buy a fund through that manager with current year money you would be limited to only that fund manager's products, but not to only one of their funds, unless they chose to make funds from other managers available, which they usually don't do. So it's routine with current year money to see the ability to buy funds from many different fund issuers in one ISA manager's product and not at all uncommon to have several different types of savings account available from a cash ISA manager, though I don't know any cash ISA managers that offer the cash-eligible funds in a cash ISA.
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rogerbu
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Post by rogerbu on Jan 5, 2016 12:19:57 GMT
I have more concern that the equity big boys (HL, Fid etc) will move in and set up IfyISAs allowing access to many of the medium to small platforms, with restrictive agreements to the platforms.
We will finish up with the situation with equity ISAs, that it is almost always financially sensible to invest via a broker and you will always be paying 1-2% charges.
These big boys with deep pockets could snaffle much of the profit from the IFyISA. I am scared that third party IFyISA providers could kill the golden goose!
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 5, 2016 13:18:51 GMT
My worry is lack of diversification at least for the first couple of years. This is due to the fact that we can only have one ISA - i.e. a single platform. Where have you seen mention of a single ISA manager or single ISA platform restriction for P2P? I've seen nothing that will change the usual adult ISA rule of an unlimited number of ISA managers for past tax year money and one for current year, each able to use an unlimited number of platforms if they desire. So plan ahead and at least use the full ISA allowance this year even if it takes a little short term borrowing, if you want diversification and don't currently have any ISA money. for those who have been regularly using ISAs the current year restriction to one ISA manager (however many platforms they allow) shouldn't matter much because they can split all of their past year money. For those who don't know the iSA rules that well: o ISA manager: the licensed ISA firm. Current year cash or S&S ISA money can be with only one manger for each. o Fund house or unit trust or P2P platform or savings account: one of an unlimited number of investments that an ISA manager can make available within a single ISA account. o A fund house can also operate its own ISA manager and if you buy a fund through that manager with current year money you would be limited to only that fund manager's products, but not to only one of their funds, unless they chose to make funds from other managers available, which they usually don't do. So it's routine with current year money to see the ability to buy funds from many different fund issuers in one ISA manager's product and not at all uncommon to have several different types of savings account available from a cash ISA manager, though I don't know any cash ISA managers that offer the cash-eligible funds in a cash ISA. OK, this can be a complete game changer for me if I am understanding you well. This is what I understood: I currently have an ISA account with a bank. I was thinking of moving this to a single p2p platform as I thought I could not send it to more than one. Now I am understanding that I can actually create/start/or whatever is called more than one p2p managers, let us say 4 and split what I already have in my ISA bank account on these 4 platforms. On top of that I can add another £15k but only in one account. Is the above correct? Also with regard to the current year (2016-17) £15k ISA limit, I am understanding that I need to wait for the year (2016-17) to end before I can start moving this around. Can you please let me know if this is correct?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 5, 2016 13:28:45 GMT
My worry is lack of diversification at least for the first couple of years. This is due to the fact that we can only have one ISA - i.e. a single platform. Where have you seen mention of a single ISA manager or single ISA platform restriction for P2P? I've seen nothing that will change the usual adult ISA rule of an unlimited number of ISA managers for past tax year money and one for current year, each able to use an unlimited number of platforms if they desire. I think that's ABLender's concern, and it's one I completely understand. FY16-17 = One P2Pisa. FY17-18 = One P2Pisa from 16/17, plus one P2Pisa from 17/18. IF there's somebody come up with a multi-platform P2Pisa wrapper, then it's going to be a new outfit - InvestUp is, afaik, the only one currently (non-isa, of course) - and ABLender explicitly said he had concerns due to them being new. So, unless you want to risk a new platform, the first few years will be one FY = one P2Pisa = one platform = diversity criminal - unless, of course, a big name comes up with a multi-platform wrapper sharpish. At which point, the question of charges comes to the fore...
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 5, 2016 13:40:25 GMT
Where have you seen mention of a single ISA manager or single ISA platform restriction for P2P? I've seen nothing that will change the usual adult ISA rule of an unlimited number of ISA managers for past tax year money and one for current year, each able to use an unlimited number of platforms if they desire. I think that's ABLender's concern, and it's one I completely understand. FY16-17 = One P2Pisa. FY17-18 = One P2Pisa from 16/17, plus one P2Pisa from 17/18. IF there's somebody come up with a multi-platform P2Pisa wrapper, then it's going to be a new outfit - InvestUp is, afaik, the only one currently (non-isa, of course) - and ABLender explicitly said he had concerns due to them being new. So, unless you want to risk a new platform, the first few years will be one FY = one P2Pisa = one platform = diversity criminal - unless, of course, a big name comes up with a multi-platform wrapper sharpish. At which point, the question of charges comes to the fore... No, on current rules FY16-17 can be one new Pisa plus any number of Pisa for proceeding years money and you can move the FY16-17 PIsa to another Pisa that year if you wish as long as you move the whole amount and I think you wouldnt be able to subscribe any further sums to any Pisa as that would count as a second subscription. FY17-18 you could have one new Pisa and any number of Pisa for FY16-17 money and any proceeding year cash, again all of these could be moved from day one. The only restictions currently are your provider allow transfers (possibly with penalty), the new provider accepts transfers and you can only subscribe new money to one provider. (subscribe is the key word, you can open multiple accounts as long as you only subscribe new money to one) Of course you could open a PISA, an ISA & SSISA, you could then transfer between them as long as you transfer it all. The other potential change of course is the ability to take money out of ISA and put it back in which you cant do at the moment - havent looked to see how that will work yet
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 5, 2016 18:03:54 GMT
@ ilmoro: Is PISA the P2P ISA (IFISA)? Remember that PISA have a leaning tower - probably not a very good idea to invest in.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 5, 2016 18:06:06 GMT
So I understood that come April I can open an ISA manager (let us say) with SS, MT and AC if they all offer this new service and then transfer parts of the ISA money which I currently have in an ISA bank account. Am I understanding correctly (at least as things stand at the moment)?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 5, 2016 18:12:01 GMT
So I understood that come April I can open an ISA manager (let us say) with SS, MT and AC if they all offer this new service and then transfer parts of the ISA money which I currently have in an ISA bank account. Am I understanding correctly (at least as things stand at the moment)? Yes
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Jan 5, 2016 18:13:41 GMT
So I understood that come April I can open an ISA manager (let us say) with SS, MT and AC if they all offer this new service and then transfer parts of the ISA money which I currently have in an ISA bank account. Am I understanding correctly (at least as things stand at the moment)? Yes Thanks.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 5, 2016 18:16:25 GMT
@ ilmoro: Is PISA the P2P ISA (IFISA)? Remember that PISA have a leaning tower - probably not a very good idea to invest in. Yeah, Ive reaccroynmed it for speed. Tower's fine, we fixed it for them ;-)
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jan 5, 2016 20:56:44 GMT
I have more concern that the equity big boys (HL, Fid etc) will move in and set up IfyISAs allowing access to many of the medium to small platforms, with restrictive agreements to the platforms. We will finish up with the situation with equity ISAs, that it is almost always financially sensible to invest via a broker and you will always be paying 1-2% charges. These big boys with deep pockets could snaffle much of the profit from the IFyISA. I am scared that third party IFyISA providers could kill the golden goose! I'm not very concerned about this at the moment. I doubt that most platforms would want to enter an exclusive agreement with the likes of HL which prevented them taking regular retail money. One or two might but I think that there will be plenty of choice for a few years yet. And if a platform had HL's money, technology and reputation behind it I might invest in it anyway even at a lower rate. However, there is one thing to be sure, that if the goose was ever golden it won't be long.
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jan 5, 2016 21:41:17 GMT
Also with regard to the current year (2016-17) £15k ISA limit, I am understanding that I need to wait for the year (2016-17) to end before I can start moving this around. Can you please let me know if this is correct? No. Specifically, we aren't yet in the 16/17 ISA year... That starts in April. Also the ISA limit isn't currently 15k, it's larger. I've not put figures as I'm not 100% sure of this year or next off the top of my head Finally, at least with cash or S&S you can move within a year but you can then only add to the one you moved to and you have to move all of that years ISA. So I can move my cash from last year, or split it into 6 etc, but if I move this years I have to take it all and that takes any unused allowance with it. In reality I'm keeping a small cash ISA for transfer to IFISA from this years allowance after April. My next years allowance will be S&S to reduction CGT from a saye scheme I hope.
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