star dust
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Post by star dust on Jan 17, 2016 8:10:44 GMT
( star dust - couple of loans seem to have avoided your censors pen ) Oops, fixed now I hope. I'll either have to start doing this on a laptop or not at all I think!
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jan 17, 2016 8:33:16 GMT
With PBL036 my reading of that is that the borrorower intends to sell another property without a loan attached to pay back this loan I agree, but I was wondering more about the reference to "all of our loans to this borrower", as I didn't realise we had more than one loan to this borrower. I don't know why, but I had in my mind that the borrower for this and PBL021 were the same, but I can't off-hand find any bits of information to support this, apart from the fact they are both in the same place and were both reportedly being re-financed by Lloyd's at one point or another I think. So, maybe this is it? With regard to PBL 06, the borrower is selling a property elsewhere to assist loan repayments.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 17, 2016 10:43:05 GMT
I agree, but I was wondering more about the reference to "all of our loans to this borrower", as I didn't realise we had more than one loan to this borrower. I don't know why, but I had in my mind that the borrower for this and PBL021 were the same, but I can't off-hand find any bits of information to support this, apart from the fact they are both in the same place and were both reportedly being re-financed by Lloyd's at one point or another I think. So, maybe this is it? With regard to PBL 06, the borrower is selling a property elsewhere to assist loan repayments. Your quite right. I had the same feeling. I knew PBL36 was formally PBL8 but got distracted by rumours that there was a boat loan before that (actually PBL19 which was PBL9 which was the Bourne) However, having had a quick skim through the updates there is a reference to 8 & 21 being the same borrower. I think I lost the link when PBL8 became PBL36. Fixed now mikes1531 PBL6 - I took it to mean to mean redemption date but as you say that doesnt explain whats happening with the balance. I wonder if they are going to add it to the SY and relaunch that loan/an additional loan hence the apparent typo. SS dont mention anything about funds coming from anywhere other than the SY, no reference to refinance of his other property referred to previously, yet even if that was the source it would have to be sorted already to prevent their being an unsecured loan. Not actually in any of these as Ive decided not to hold anything with less than 3 months to redemption to avoid such uncertainties since new T&Cs (not appplicable here I know)
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Post by ladywhitenap on Jan 17, 2016 10:54:02 GMT
I did not fully understand this part "1,000 acres farmland, Bedfordshire This is now in legals, hope to complete end of Jan. We have split it into 4 tranches to facilitate a tranched drawdown and repayment schedule. All tranches will have equal priority."
If the borrower is having phased drawdown then presumably he will only be paying interest on the elements that he has drawndown? But SS have said All tranches will have equal priority which only makes sense (to me) if all four tranches are released to us at the same time so where will our interest come from until draw down of the latter tranches?
Can anyone clarify for my simple brain please?
LW
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ben
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Post by ben on Jan 17, 2016 11:00:43 GMT
I am not sure how that works either as usually my understanding of tranche is one gets priority over the other as each trance is technically a new loan
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 17, 2016 11:06:54 GMT
I did not fully understand this part "1,000 acres farmland, Bedfordshire This is now in legals, hope to complete end of Jan. We have split it into 4 tranches to facilitate a tranched drawdown and repayment schedule. All tranches will have equal priority." If the borrower is having phased drawdown then presumably he will only be paying interest on the elements that he has drawndown? But SS have said All tranches will have equal priority which only makes sense (to me) if all four tranches are released to us at the same time so where will our interest come from until draw down of the latter tranches? Can anyone clarify for my simple brain please? LW Deleted original reply as not as clear cut as I thought
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ben
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Post by ben on Jan 17, 2016 11:09:41 GMT
So basically you mean take all 4 trances as one loan?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 17, 2016 11:12:59 GMT
So basically you mean take all 4 trances as one loan? Yes, its all one borrower so the loans are linked Whats confusing is the way theyve listed it as 4 seperate 250acre chunks. Normally that would imply that it has been legally divided with each piece having a seperate title so are independent from each other and each would be a seperate loan. If thats correct then what SS mean by same priority is that no loan will treated independently when it comes to repayment so the borrower couldnt just repay one loan and leave the other three outstanding. I confess I not totally clear myself the more I look at it and only the CR or maybe valuation will make the exact situation clear.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Jan 17, 2016 13:00:46 GMT
I read it that SS will only release the tranches as and when drawn down and the borrower is paying interest. All tranches will rank pari passu (or something like that - 60 years since I did Latin) in terms of the security in the event of a default.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jan 17, 2016 13:23:18 GMT
... so what the title should really say is 1000 acres Bedfordshire (we think) Tranches1,2,3,4. I like the idea of four trances. Wells's Brewery (in Bedfordshire) might be able to help. Nice drop of Bombardier??
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 17, 2016 14:08:05 GMT
I read it that SS will only release the tranches as and when drawn down and the borrower is paying interest. All tranches will rank pari passu (or something like that - 60 years since I did Latin) in terms of the security in the event of a default. In which case, would it not be four tranches secured on 1,000 acres, rather than four tranches each secured on (a different?) 250 acres?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jan 17, 2016 14:11:32 GMT
I read it that SS will only release the tranches as and when drawn down and the borrower is paying interest. All tranches will rank pari passu (or something like that - 60 years since I did Latin) in terms of the security in the event of a default. In which case, would it not be four tranches secured on 1,000 acres, rather than four tranches each secured on (a different?) 250 acres? The descriptions in the Update email and on the Pipeline Loans list currently are inconsistent. My guess is that the Update email is the correct one and that it will be 4 tranches against the same 1000 acres, each ranked pari passu
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 17, 2016 14:21:11 GMT
... so what the title should really say is 1000 acres Bedfordshire (we think) Tranches1,2,3,4. I think oldgrumpy probably is right. I'd be surprised if there were four separate parcels of 250 acres, each with a separate title. And if there were, we'd be looking at four separate loans rather than four tranches. AIUI, by saying from the start that there is going to be a total of £7M lent against the security, all four tranches can have equal priority. (I think webwiz has the correct term -- pari passu.) If SS had announced the loans one at a time, then they would have ended up with the first one having higher priority than the second, the second having higher priority than the third, etc., because otherwise people who invested in the earlier loans would find their security being diluted, compared to what they invested in, as the further loans are made. SS have stated the value as a total of £10M. This may be a development project where the £10M is the GDV, so the whole of the £7M really can't be secured until the project is built. If the land itself is worth at least £2.5M, then the first £1.75M loan can be made using just the land as the security and the money advanced could be used to start the development. By the time that is all spent, the value of the land and partially completed project should be higher and would support the second loan as well, at which point the second £1.75M tranche could be funded by SS and released to the borrower to continue spending on the development. And so on until the project is complete and the borrower is in a position to sell it on, or refinance it with a traditional lender, and repay the SS loans. If the £10M value is for the land itself -- and I haven't a clue what Bedfordshire farmland might be worth -- then the borrower could be needing the money for some project where funding is needed over a period of time. There would be no point in taking all of the £7M at the beginning if it isn't needed up front since that would mean paying more interest than necessary, so the loan is divided up into tranches and the additional money is funded and sent to the borrower -- and the interest starts accruing -- only when they need it. I expect that all will be revealed when the Loan Particulars are made available.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Jan 17, 2016 14:27:31 GMT
Oh Mike, you just deleted your assertion re 250 acres My source is the SS update 16 January which states: In legals, hope to complete before end of Jan 1,000 acres farmland, Bedfordshire.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 17, 2016 14:30:36 GMT
£10k/acre is in the ballpark .. does depend on what grade of farmland (1 being better IIRC), what's underneath (lots of good clay-pit country round there), and whether there is development potential (add two zeroes!). Larger areas go at lower prices, - small bits sold to horsey types can command a large premium, assuming some sort of sensible access. So I expect this is just vanilla farmland .. so far. We shall see when there are documents...
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