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Post by flx123 on Jan 18, 2016 19:44:00 GMT
I thought I would bring to the attention of this forum that the autoinvest queue depends on one's account size, not on the time one has been waiting to invest. Which I find disappointing and rather unfair. In contrast Mintos thinks the system is fair. More details below based on a recent email exchange with Mintos. So, what do people think - is it right to base the autoinvest queue on the account balance or should it be based on the waiting time with autoinvest? Jan 16, me: "... In other words, how long is the auto-invest queue for personal loans?" Jan18, Vitalijs:"... Demand for the personal loans is very big. ... Your Auto Invest also haven`t invested in them because one of the factors for Auto Invest is remaining account balance and who have it bigger they are first in a row. " Jan 18, me: "... I appreciate that my account is very small. However, what I don’t understand is why auto invest would benefit larger investors over smaller ones. It doesn't make any difference to you whether you take my £500 or somebody else’s - the fact that a larger investor has more money with you shouldn’t influence his position in the queue. " Jan 18 Vitalijs:"... We think that at the moment the Auto invest logic is fair. "
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Post by martins on Jan 19, 2016 7:42:51 GMT
The queue depends on various factors, and one's account size is just one of the factors. The simple fact is that the investor demand for some loans (e.g. personal loans) is much higher than available loan supply at the moment. As a result there, of course, will be investors who get less of these loans than they would like to, be it a smaller or a larger investor. While there is no silver bullet in striking a balance between smaller and larger investors (both want to invest more than what's available at the moment), we are closely monitoring how Auto Invest works. As always, we take all investor feedback seriously and appreciate flx123 starting this discussion.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Jan 19, 2016 8:43:22 GMT
Are we talking here about total amount invested having an advantage or cash balance awaiting auto investment?
If it is the cash balance it seems unfair because if I take investments I don't really want because of a shortage of those I do want, then I will never get part of the preferred loan because I have taken what is available to help fill unpopular loans, instead of leaving idle cash and not increasing my total investment by adding funds. I would choose waiting time as a fairer system.
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Post by flx123 on Jan 19, 2016 9:01:50 GMT
The queue depends on various factors, and one's account size is just one of the factors. martins : Could you please enlighten us what these factors are, besides one's account size, and how taken together they determine one's position in the queue?
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jan 19, 2016 9:27:17 GMT
Are we talking here about total amount invested having an advantage or cash balance awaiting auto investment? If it is the cash balance it seems unfair because if I take investments I don't really want because of a shortage of those I do want, then I will never get part of the preferred loan because I have taken what is available to help fill unpopular loans, instead of leaving idle cash and not increasing my total investment by adding funds. I would choose waiting time as a fairer system. I was told it is the cash balance awaiting investment. The problem is that if you invest the cash in loans that you don't really want, then there is no cash for AutoInvest to use even if your AutoInvest has been waiting for some time! If you don't re-invest the cash that accumulates, then both your cash balance and waiting time will increase together, so it doesn't really matter which gets you priority. Perhaps the best solution is that both should increase your priority in the queue. But I think that if all the factors are disclosed, then people will then skew their account to try and maximise their priority.
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Post by reeknralf on Jan 19, 2016 11:12:39 GMT
I don't really understand the poll question. Is it waiting time for each autobid? In which case I'll just set up tons of autobids to game the system. Or is it waiting time for my whole account, In which case it seems odd I don't get a personal loan, because I happen to have just invested in a mortgage. And what If I've waited a long time because there's no cash on the account?
It seems to me bigger accounts should get proportionally more loans than smaller accounts, else they'll atrophy. And accounts with lots of cash should get more loans so that new investors can build a portfolio. I just try to adjust the autobids' parameters to balance the portfolio and minimise cash drag. I have ~€6k and add my repayments from Bondora each month. It works well for me.
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Post by red_panda on Jan 19, 2016 19:58:48 GMT
For inspiration on how it auto invest works in Assetz. It checks in order of who has the least amount invested in the loan first, then sorted on who set up the auto-invest first, so in essence it's time based. It's definitely not fair if larger accounts have the priority as it is now, forces out the smaller investor or those who chose to dip in loans they did not fully like before new ones became available. I would even go as far as to add some random factor to the algorithm.
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Post by martins on Jan 20, 2016 13:13:25 GMT
Other factors include also, for example, minimum investment in one loan. However, unfortunately I am afraid we cannot disclose how exactly once position is determined in the queue for reasons that have been already discussed here. The queue depends on various factors, and one's account size is just one of the factors. martins : Could you please enlighten us what these factors are, besides one's account size, and how taken together they determine one's position in the queue?
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huxs
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Post by huxs on Jan 20, 2016 13:27:08 GMT
Other factors include also, for example, minimum investment in one loan. However, unfortunately I am afraid we cannot disclose how exactly once position is determined in the queue for reasons that have been already discussed here. martins : Could you please enlighten us what these factors are, besides one's account size, and how taken together they determine one's position in the queue? More importantly do you see supply catching up with Demand anytime soon, I am guessing I am close to the bottom of the queue, which while annoying I am not going to moan about (you have to use someway of distributing loans and someone is always going to lose out this time it looks like it might be me). If though supply is planned to increase shortly then I will happily wait, otherwise given the EUR to GBP rate is better now than it was when I transferred in its as good a time as any to move my money out for a while.
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Post by martins on Jan 20, 2016 13:52:06 GMT
Thank you for a good discussion here.
From our side we believe that it's actually a combination of factors that should determine one's place in the queue. And that's what we are striving for.
In our opinion there is no one best solution. The thing is that it is impossible to satisfy everybody when demand outstrips supply. For example, with pure time based solution for the Auto Invest queue it is very easy to game the system. Also, pure time based solution heavily favours smaller investors leaving larger investors with unsatisfied demand. Similar contrary arguments can be drawn about pure cash based queueing. So at the end it's an act of balancing the distribution of loans between larger and smaller investors.
We are monitoring the balance between larger and smaller investors and constantly improving our platform, including Auto Invest. However, we also acknowledge that in a case of limited supply whatever solution is introduced for Auto Invest all investor demand cannot be met.
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Post by martins on Jan 20, 2016 13:59:49 GMT
Yes, we will add a few new loan originators in a near future. We expect to connect a couple already in February. Meanwhile, there are about 300 loans (about EUR 750k in total) available on the Primary Market. Significant amount of new loans are added every day. As with any other form of investment we strongly believe in diversification, and not only across different loans, but also loan types, loan originators, and countries. Other factors include also, for example, minimum investment in one loan. However, unfortunately I am afraid we cannot disclose how exactly once position is determined in the queue for reasons that have been already discussed here. More importantly do you see supply catching up with Demand anytime soon, I am guessing I am close to the bottom of the queue, which while annoying I am not going to moan about (you have to use someway of distributing loans and someone is always going to lose out this time it looks like it might be me). If though supply is planned to increase shortly then I will happily wait, otherwise given the EUR to GBP rate is better now than it was when I transferred in its as good a time as any to move my money out for a while.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Jan 21, 2016 8:34:54 GMT
I think that priority should also be given to those investors who have a record of not buying on the Primary Market then immediately putting the loan share up for sale on the Secondary Market at a premium.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 11:40:43 GMT
How about Autoinvest picking investors in random, and those who're picked don't get picked again till all other eligible investor's auto invest (whose criteria match available loan) are fulfilled.
Implementation surely isn't hard of that.
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czech
New Member
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Post by czech on Jan 24, 2016 13:43:29 GMT
While I understand the intension to prioritize the investors with higher cash available, I would prefer more time-based approach - specifically, having a separate queues of investors for each loan originator. I think that way a more equal distribution of loans (with the same characteristics) among investors would be achieved.
Currently, my auto invest has not been able to catch a single Creamfinance loan for the past 12 days, despite a few dozen new loans being added almost every day.
Other than that, I would like to say I am very satisfied with Mintos so far.
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yacop
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Post by yacop on Jan 24, 2016 14:54:43 GMT
It appears that history repeats itself. I remember we had the same conversation in 2013 in the discussion board at Bondora. The result was that Bondora did not listen to the suggestions and screwed investors. I hope that Mintos is different.
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