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SPV 39
Jan 30, 2016 15:20:32 GMT
Post by Financial Thing on Jan 30, 2016 15:20:32 GMT
I'd trust my friends valuation over a PM valuation, which is designed to make the property look as attractive as possible to garner investment. My friend is very experienced in the Northern market, owns his own firm with many employees and has been in the business 20+years. I just post the information for help to others, you can do what you want with it and it makes no difference to me whether you invest your money or it. I would have thought it would be in PM'S interest not to over pay on any property. As it reduces both the capital and rental yield and makes it less attractive to investors. Whilst I don't disbelieve your friend with his valuation, it does put into focus how objective valuations can be. Yes it would be in their interest not to overpay, but companies make mistakes with regards to valuations all the time. A good real estate investment isn't one that is secured for 5% under market value. That's called paying retail (or overpaying IMO).
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webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
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SPV 39
Jan 30, 2016 15:24:21 GMT
Post by webwiz on Jan 30, 2016 15:24:21 GMT
My friend read the valuation, and is saying the comparables are not at all comparable, therefore the valuation is inflated: "One is a single flat, two is by the sea and the third is a new purpose build development of modern flats" Where is the valuation showing the comparables? I can't find it.
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SPV 39
Jan 30, 2016 15:47:58 GMT
Post by Financial Thing on Jan 30, 2016 15:47:58 GMT
My friend read the valuation, and is saying the comparables are not at all comparable, therefore the valuation is inflated: "One is a single flat, two is by the sea and the third is a new purpose build development of modern flats" Where is the valuation showing the comparables? I can't find it. PM for some reason doesn't post the valuations, you have to ask them to email it to you.
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webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
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SPV 39
Jan 30, 2016 15:54:25 GMT
Post by webwiz on Jan 30, 2016 15:54:25 GMT
Where is the valuation showing the comparables? I can't find it. PM for some reason doesn't post the valuations, you have to ask them to email it to you. Thanks. I'll do that.
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hazellend
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,363 
Likes: 2,180
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SPV 39
Jan 30, 2016 16:40:30 GMT
Post by hazellend on Jan 30, 2016 16:40:30 GMT
I'd trust my friends valuation over a PM valuation, which is designed to make the property look as attractive as possible to garner investment. My friend is very experienced in the Northern market, owns his own firm with many employees and has been in the business 20+years. I just post the information for help to others, you can do what you want with it and it makes no difference to me whether you invest your money or it. I would have thought it would be in PM'S interest not to over pay on any property. As it reduces both the capital and rental yield and makes it less attractive to investors. Whilst I don't disbelieve your friend with his valuation, it does put into focus how objective valuations can be. Their team do seem quite experienced and they really have to make capital gains for their business to be profitable for 2 reasons: 1) Having spoken to Ben and Stuart in the past the 5% upfront fee is basically a break even on their costs, with little to no profit 2) They only make money when the property is sold for a profit and they take a cut of the gains. 3) If they buy a bunch of duds they will lose/not recruit any new customers so the business will not succeed. Some of my properties have done poorly with regards to rental income but PM seem to be taking good measures to improve the situation. Some have done quite nicely. Not sure about their current valuations they give which is extremely volatile.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
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SPV 39
Jan 30, 2016 17:35:53 GMT
Post by j on Jan 30, 2016 17:35:53 GMT
I would have thought it would be in PM'S interest not to over pay on any property. As it reduces both the capital and rental yield and makes it less attractive to investors. Whilst I don't disbelieve your friend with his valuation, it does put into focus how objective valuations can be. Their team do seem quite experienced and they really have to make capital gains for their business to be profitable for 2 reasons: 1) Having spoken to Ben and Stuart in the past the 5% upfront fee is basically a break even on their costs, with little to no profit 2) They only make money when the property is sold for a profit and they take a cut of the gains. 3) If they buy a bunch of duds they will lose/not recruit any new customers so the business will not succeed. Some of my properties have done poorly with regards to rental income but PM seem to be taking good measures to improve the situation. Some have done quite nicely. Not sure about their current valuations they give which is extremely volatile. I don't think any of us are doubting PM's integrity or honesty but, it would add an extra layer of confidence to have sight of the VR from the CS with the rest of the info/calcs provided on properties. If PM decline or not provide a feasible explanation as to why they do not provide then yes doubts can creep in in some minds as transparency is key in this type of investment
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 8:50:28 GMT
j likes this
Post by propertymoose on Feb 1, 2016 8:50:28 GMT
Hi all
Just coming back on the valuation point. We are happy to share the valuation with anyone that wants to get in touch at support@. Within the next 4-6 weeks, there will be an update released to the website and we do have the opportunity now to include an option to download the valuation from each property page. From the feedback here, it appears that this would be preferable to people but I'd love to hear any thoughts (also any feedback on anything else you would like to see).
Kind regards
Andrew
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 9:19:32 GMT
Post by j on Feb 1, 2016 9:19:32 GMT
Hi all Just coming back on the valuation point. We are happy to share the valuation with anyone that wants to get in touch at support@. Within the next 4-6 weeks, there will be an update released to the website and we do have the opportunity now to include an option to download the valuation from each property page. From the feedback here, it appears that this would be preferable to people but I'd love to hear any thoughts (also any feedback on anything else you would like to see). Kind regards Andrew Excellent news! It will put minds to rest in providing that extra layer of confirmation. What is the legal protection, if any, if the CS's valuation was erroneously wrong after purchasing a property. Is there any insurance-type cover with which PM can claim back?
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Post by propertymoose on Feb 1, 2016 9:47:38 GMT
The CS's valuation is completed in the name of a Property Moose group company and they will carry PI insurance in the usual way. If we had to, we would be able to make a claim against the CS on behalf of the SPV.
PM itself also carries PI insurance of £10m which will be increased as the properties under management increases.
Hope that helps!
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 9:51:51 GMT
Post by j on Feb 1, 2016 9:51:51 GMT
The CS's valuation is completed in the name of a Property Moose group company and they will carry PI insurance in the usual way. If we had to, we would be able to make a claim against the CS on behalf of the SPV. PM itself also carries PI insurance of £10m which will be increased as the properties under management increases. Hope that helps! Thank you
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webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 11:51:21 GMT
Post by webwiz on Feb 1, 2016 11:51:21 GMT
Received the valuation after requesting it. The point about the comparables is, AIUI, that the yields on these have been used to estimate the yield obtainable on this property. The comparables are not supposed to be similar properties with similar capital values.
The yield figure they have used - 12% - is IMO ultra-cautious. A lower figure would be more realistic IMO and would produce a higher valuation. So there is plenty of "fat" in the valuation to offset void periods etc.
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ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 14:29:01 GMT
Post by ben on Feb 1, 2016 14:29:01 GMT
Received the valuation after requesting it. The point about the comparables is, AIUI, that the yields on these have been used to estimate the yield obtainable on this property. The comparables are not supposed to be similar properties with similar capital values. The yield figure they have used - 12% - is IMO ultra-cautious. A lower figure would be more realistic IMO and would produce a higher valuation. So there is plenty of "fat" in the valuation to offset void periods etc. That is good will have a look myself did not know could ask for the valuation too so worth having a look aslo
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 16:24:38 GMT
Post by Financial Thing on Feb 1, 2016 16:24:38 GMT
IMO This property is overvalued, it's not being secured for much of a market discount and the area isn't good. The yields might be ok but as an investment, it falls way short.
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webwiz
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 210
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Post by webwiz on Feb 1, 2016 18:04:38 GMT
IMO This property is overvalued, it's not being secured for much of a market discount and the area isn't good. The yields might be ok but as an investment, it falls way short. Surely as an investment it is only the yield that matters? Like undated gilts.
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ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
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SPV 39
Feb 1, 2016 18:13:54 GMT
Post by ben on Feb 1, 2016 18:13:54 GMT
IMO This property is overvalued, it's not being secured for much of a market discount and the area isn't good. The yields might be ok but as an investment, it falls way short. Surely as an investment it is only the yield that matters? Like undated gilts. Depends if you plan on selling it on or not in the near future
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