bigfoot12
Member of DD Central
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 15, 2016 10:46:23 GMT
It's your choice to use the highest paying platforms, and good luck to you. What you are saying is that you hope those platforms will offer an ISA, and that their rates will not go down as a result. This depends not only on their margin but also on supply and demand. It may not be realistic to expect rates to remain at 12% if demand from lenders shoots up as a result of offering an ISA. Can they find enough borrowers willing to pay their high rates and will those borrowers be creditworthy? I personally doubt that all of the platforms offering 12% will make it through to full authorisation, and not all of those that do will necessarily offer an ISA. They may well feel that they are already doing all the business that they can cope with. Then it might mean that I have to decide between let us say an 8% ISA vs 12% non-ISA (for which I pay 20% tax = c10% if I am doing the maths correctly), and for which the first £1000 of interest is not taxed. Can someone check my working? Your maths is close enough. 20% of 12% would be 2.4% so 9.6% for you. Though if you are looking at SS, for example, the annual rate is a little bit better than 12% as it pays monthly so the net would be closer to 10%. You seem to be assuming no losses. Is that correct? Edit: Crossed with pikestaff, also it is possible that some P2P companies will be not offer a direct ISA, but will offer one through someone like invest up at a charge of 0.5%.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Feb 15, 2016 11:32:22 GMT
You are right in principle, but I'd expect you to be able to beat 8% in an P2P ISA even if the top paying platforms don't offer one. Time will tell. If there's a massive influx of lender money it will drive rates down across the board and the likes of SS will have to cut their rates as well, to compete for borrowers. Or they could source more loans, although this might or might not be difficult without compromising quality. I personally like some of the low LTV property loans on TC, and a few on SS, but I am being very picky; Especially after being burnt on SME loans. Assetz also an option for me.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 15, 2016 11:43:24 GMT
Then it might mean that I have to decide between let us say an 8% ISA vs 12% non-ISA (for which I pay 20% tax = c10% if I am doing the maths correctly), and for which the first £1000 of interest is not taxed. Can someone check my working? Your maths is close enough. 20% of 12% would be 2.4% so 9.6% for you. Though if you are looking at SS, for example, the annual rate is a little bit better than 12% as it pays monthly so the net would be closer to 10%. You seem to be assuming no losses. Is that correct? Edit: Crossed with pikestaff , also it is possible that some P2P companies will be not offer a direct ISA, but will offer one through someone like invest up at a charge of 0.5%. Yes, my 10% mentioned previously is a close round figure for comparison. Yes, I am assuming no losses, as losses will effect both ISA and non-ISA equally up to a certain point. I read somewhere that we will be able to claim losses against interest in the future which is a positive for non-ISA. (since there is not tax on ISA, I read that this claiming losses will not be available for ISA loans. - please anyone comment and correct if necessary.) I do hope that the likes of savingstream will offer ISA accounts directly. As I mentioned in another thread, I did look at investUp but I have some reservations. 1. Using a platform which is very new and unproven, 2. adding another platform in the chain that can fail - so I prefer to deal with a platform directly.
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Post by davee39 on Feb 15, 2016 11:50:24 GMT
I cannot specify a premium. I invest based on asset allocation and the majority is in low paying protected accounts,followed by RS, Zopa, FC & Assetz (in that order). No amount of premium can compensate for the very real platform failure risk associated with the 12%+ platforms and their exposure to property or unconventional assets.
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investibod
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Post by investibod on Feb 15, 2016 12:02:25 GMT
Assetz also an option for me. Maybe I missed the announcement somewhere, bu has Assetz committed to providing an IFISA? I was intending to look for an ISA manager who might provide an umbrella for investing with multiple P2P providers. However if Assetz are going to be managing an IFISA themselves, I might be tempted to use them for the first year money.
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Post by trentenders on Feb 15, 2016 21:44:40 GMT
Assetz also an option for me. Maybe I missed the announcement somewhere, bu has Assetz committed to providing an IFISA? I was intending to look for an ISA manager who might provide an umbrella for investing with multiple P2P providers. However if Assetz are going to be managing an IFISA themselves, I might be tempted to use them for the first year money. I had an email from them today, asking how much I would want to put in, transfer in, and when I'd be looking to do it. It's definitely their intention to launch an ISA at some point soon.
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jonah
Member of DD Central
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Post by jonah on Feb 15, 2016 21:54:47 GMT
Maybe I missed the announcement somewhere, bu has Assetz committed to providing an IFISA? I was intending to look for an ISA manager who might provide an umbrella for investing with multiple P2P providers. However if Assetz are going to be managing an IFISA themselves, I might be tempted to use them for the first year money. I had an email from them today, asking how much I would want to put in, transfer in, and when I'd be looking to do it. It's definitely their intention to launch an ISA at some point soon. I think AC should hire james to tweak the wording of their questions as I am fairly sure the suggestion you can only open one IFISA in a year isn't 100% correct. 
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james
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Post by james on Feb 15, 2016 22:23:31 GMT
I had an email from them today, asking how much I would want to put in, transfer in, and when I'd be looking to do it. It's definitely their intention to launch an ISA at some point soon. I think AC should hire james to tweak the wording of their questions as I am fairly sure the suggestion you can only open one IFISA in a year isn't 100% correct. There's always the chance that there will be different rules for IF ISAs than for the other types other than Help To Buy. It'd be crazy but crazy things have happened before. I also have to remember that Assetz and other P2P vendors have more communication with the Treasury and HMRC than I do and they might know that something non-standard is actually going to happen. Most likely is just inaccurate description of the rules, maybe due to attempts to simplify. An only one restriction would greatly limit how much money I'd put into IF ISA because I'm not going to sacrifice necessary safety to get that tax gain. It would be good to ask Assetz to clarify whether they do have inside information that there will be special more restrictive rules for IF ISAs than for cash and S&S ISAs and what the actual restrictions are compared to the Cash and S&S ISA summary below. If there really are such restrictions it'd be time for consumers to start asking or it to be changed so we don't have to take unnecessary risks with our money to use the IF ISA. If there aren't restrictions it would be good for Assetz to more accurately describe the rules so they don't mislead consumers into thinking all past and current year money has to be with them if any is. The standard rules are: HTB: a type of cash ISA where all current and past year money must be with the same ISA manager. But you're free to transfer between managers as often as you like so there's no limit other than how long it takes. Cash, S&S: only one ISA manager in use at one time with current tax year money but you can use an unlimited number with current yer money provided you do it consecutively with transfers or by withdrawing, closing and redepositing. Unlimited number of ISA managers for past year money. Unlimited number of accounts under each ISA manager for both current and past year money. An "only one" restriction in strictest interpretation would mean that all current and past year money would have to be with just one IF ISA provider, no transfers allowed, and that would be recklessly irresponsible with consumer money, compelling consumers to take unnecessary risk of loss due to platform failure or fraud issues when they should be diversifying across multiple platforms for their own protection.
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webwiz
Posts: 1,133
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Post by webwiz on Feb 16, 2016 10:11:10 GMT
I think AC should hire james to tweak the wording of their questions as I am fairly sure the suggestion you can only open one IFISA in a year isn't 100% correct. There's always the chance that there will be different rules for IF ISAs than for the other types other than Help To Buy. It'd be crazy but crazy things have happened before. I also have to remember that Assetz and other P2P vendors have more communication with the Treasury and HMRC than I do and they might know that something non-standard is actually going to happen. Most likely is just inaccurate description of the rules, maybe due to attempts to simplify. An only one restriction would greatly limit how much money I'd put into IF ISA because I'm not going to sacrifice necessary safety to get that tax gain. It would be good to ask Assetz to clarify whether they do have inside information that there will be special more restrictive rules for IF ISAs than for cash and S&S ISAs and what the actual restrictions are compared to the Cash and S&S ISA summary below. If there really are such restrictions it'd be time for consumers to start asking or it to be changed so we don't have to take unnecessary risks with our money to use the IF ISA. If there aren't restrictions it would be good for Assetz to more accurately describe the rules so they don't mislead consumers into thinking all past and current year money has to be with them if any is. The standard rules are: HTB: a type of cash ISA where all current and past year money must be with the same ISA manager. But you're free to transfer between managers as often as you like so there's no limit other than how long it takes. Cash, S&S: only one ISA manager in use at one time with current tax year money but you can use an unlimited number with current yer money provided you do it consecutively with transfers or by withdrawing, closing and redepositing. Unlimited number of ISA managers for past year money. Unlimited number of accounts under each ISA manager for both current and past year money. An "only one" restriction in strictest interpretation would mean that all current and past year money would have to be with just one IF ISA provider, no transfers allowed, and that would be recklessly irresponsible with consumer money, compelling consumers to take unnecessary risk of loss due to platform failure or fraud issues when they should be diversifying across multiple platforms for their own protection. Technically correct but closing and redepositing is not a good idea as the amount in the account being closed is not added back to your annual allowance. So if you put the full amount in the first account and then close it you cannot put anything in the second account AIUI. So always better to transfer from the first to the second.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 16, 2016 10:27:48 GMT
I tend to see ISA investments as long term and P2P short term. So I wont be playing.
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Post by chris on Feb 16, 2016 10:58:49 GMT
Assetz also an option for me. Maybe I missed the announcement somewhere, bu has Assetz committed to providing an IFISA? I was intending to look for an ISA manager who might provide an umbrella for investing with multiple P2P providers. However if Assetz are going to be managing an IFISA themselves, I might be tempted to use them for the first year money. Yes we will be launching an IFISA as soon as we are fully authorised. Our application has been submitted but we're in the hands of the FCA in terms of timing.
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Post by chris on Feb 16, 2016 11:01:51 GMT
I think AC should hire james to tweak the wording of their questions as I am fairly sure the suggestion you can only open one IFISA in a year isn't 100% correct. There's always the chance that there will be different rules for IF ISAs than for the other types other than Help To Buy. It'd be crazy but crazy things have happened before. I also have to remember that Assetz and other P2P vendors have more communication with the Treasury and HMRC than I do and they might know that something non-standard is actually going to happen. Most likely is just inaccurate description of the rules, maybe due to attempts to simplify. An only one restriction would greatly limit how much money I'd put into IF ISA because I'm not going to sacrifice necessary safety to get that tax gain. It would be good to ask Assetz to clarify whether they do have inside information that there will be special more restrictive rules for IF ISAs than for cash and S&S ISAs and what the actual restrictions are compared to the Cash and S&S ISA summary below. If there really are such restrictions it'd be time for consumers to start asking or it to be changed so we don't have to take unnecessary risks with our money to use the IF ISA. If there aren't restrictions it would be good for Assetz to more accurately describe the rules so they don't mislead consumers into thinking all past and current year money has to be with them if any is. The standard rules are: HTB: a type of cash ISA where all current and past year money must be with the same ISA manager. But you're free to transfer between managers as often as you like so there's no limit other than how long it takes. Cash, S&S: only one ISA manager in use at one time with current tax year money but you can use an unlimited number with current yer money provided you do it consecutively with transfers or by withdrawing, closing and redepositing. Unlimited number of ISA managers for past year money. Unlimited number of accounts under each ISA manager for both current and past year money. An "only one" restriction in strictest interpretation would mean that all current and past year money would have to be with just one IF ISA provider, no transfers allowed, and that would be recklessly irresponsible with consumer money, compelling consumers to take unnecessary risk of loss due to platform failure or fraud issues when they should be diversifying across multiple platforms for their own protection. As I understand it the rules have yet to be confirmed as even the FCA haven't been told yet what the treasury are going to end up releasing. As soon as we have clarity we'll publish our plans and provide as much clarity to lenders as we can.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 16, 2016 11:15:03 GMT
... Cash, S&S: only one ISA manager in use at one time with current tax year money but you can use an unlimited number with current yer money provided you do it consecutively with transfers or by withdrawing, closing and redepositing.... Technically correct but closing and redepositing is not a good idea as the amount in the account being closed is not added back to your annual allowance. So if you put the full amount in the first account and then close it you cannot put anything in the second account AIUI. So always better to transfer from the first to the second. True, though there is HMRC tolerance for a single cash ISA self-transfer done in that way.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 16, 2016 11:23:39 GMT
There's always the chance that there will be different rules for IF ISAs than for the other types other than Help To Buy. ... As I understand it the rules have yet to be confirmed as even the FCA haven't been told yet what the treasury are going to end up releasing. As soon as we have clarity we'll publish our plans and provide as much clarity to lenders as we can. Thanks Chris. Do you have any idea whether you're planning to allow the optional Flexible ISA features? Those allow withdrawing and redepositing an unlimited amount of money with the same ISA manager within the tax year, optionally also including past year money, so someone could do it with a million Pounds if they had that much. Can be handy for things like short term investing then withdrawing for VCT subscribing and topping back up again out of income or maturing investments later in the tax year. ISA manager Bulletin 68 has the rules.
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Post by chris on Feb 16, 2016 11:25:23 GMT
As I understand it the rules have yet to be confirmed as even the FCA haven't been told yet what the treasury are going to end up releasing. As soon as we have clarity we'll publish our plans and provide as much clarity to lenders as we can. Thanks Chris. Do you have any idea whether you're planning to allow the optional Flexible ISA features? Those allow withdrawing and redepositing an unlimited amount of money with the same ISA manager within the tax year, optionally also including past year money, so someone could do it with a million Pounds if they had that much. Can be handy for things like short term investing then withdrawing for VCT subscribing and topping back up again out of income or maturing investments later in the tax year. ISA manager Bulletin 68 has the rules. No idea I'm afraid. I'll ask though and suspect that we'll be wanting to be a flexible as possible. Edit: Received this back - “In common with all of the established peer-to-peer platforms, we’re waiting for the Government to publish the final legislation for the IFISA following the consultation which closed at the beginning of February. As a result it’s a bit too soon to discuss definitive plans. Suffice to say, we want to present lenders with the best offering we can at the appropriate time and we’ll be sure to notify all lenders as our plans crystallise and once our IFISA offering is up and running.”
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