Investboy
Member of DD Central
Trying to recover from P2P revolution
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Post by Investboy on Feb 24, 2016 16:17:57 GMT
I haven't left any yet TBH I only have 1 (not yet) default on FC and 3 suspended on AC. But I'm only in P2P since Oct 2015... Only time will tell how it will play out. Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 24, 2016 16:44:21 GMT
I haven't left any yet TBH I only have 1 (not yet) default on FC and 3 suspended on AC. But I'm only in P2P since Oct 2015... Only time will tell how it will play out. Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences. After 3 years I've built up a portfolio of 250+ loans spread across 5 platforms (RS not included), with 50+ loans repaid/sold. 2 defaults with FC, with about 30% recovery so far, and 1 with AC, which is expected to achieve 100% recovery. My experience with FC doesn't tally with those people who are leaving because of defaults - the varying capital makes calculating the default rate non-trivial, but a finger in the air calculation is 0.2% per annum. But I'm finding very few acceptable SME loans at FC nowadays.
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Post by lb on Feb 24, 2016 18:26:35 GMT
I left them all To start my own im now a borrower
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james
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Post by james on Feb 24, 2016 22:47:09 GMT
I think we should treat the high interest paying platforms like junk bonds. Perhaps so, but do you really think that it makes sense to reject Zopa and RateSetter just because they are paying interest rates that are high compared to the rates obtainable by their borrowers on the broader market via persona loans and credit card deals? Conversely, places like SavingStream are offering quite modest or even low interest rates to lenders compared to the outside interest rates charged for property development and bridging loans, so a high/low rate portfolio would have a higher proportion invested at SavingStream. In general I think that most people who are writing about high or low interest rates are just using the absolute numbers - 12% higher than 5% therefore 12% must be more risky - without recognising that the 5% is actually the one that is above the norm for its market, not the 12%, so it's the 5% that should be getting reduced allocation, while the 12% can cherry-pick the better lending prospects more easily because they don't have so much competition that is more attractive elsewhere. I do think that raw risk is actually higher on the property 12% but the risk-return balance is a different matter.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Feb 25, 2016 10:17:57 GMT
I think we should treat the high interest paying platforms like junk bonds. Perhaps so, but do you really think that it makes sense to reject Zopa and RateSetter just because they are paying interest rates that are high compared to the rates obtainable by their borrowers on the broader market via persona loans and credit card deals? Conversely, places like SavingStream are offering quite modest or even low interest rates to lenders compared to the outside interest rates charged for property development and bridging loans, so a high/low rate portfolio would have a higher proportion invested at SavingStream. In general I think that most people who are writing about high or low interest rates are just using the absolute numbers - 12% higher than 5% therefore 12% must be more risky - without recognising that the 5% is actually the one that is above the norm for its market, not the 12%, so it's the 5% that should be getting reduced allocation, while the 12% can cherry-pick the better lending prospects more easily because they don't have so much competition that is more attractive elsewhere. I do think that raw risk is actually higher on the property 12% but the risk-return balance is a different matter.Agreed. And Z and RS also perform poorly at the other end of the rate spectrum. For modest portfolios the bank accounts paying 3%+ with FSCS protection and instant access are a better bet IMO even though the rates are usually slightly lower (I finally left RS when the 'market rate' dropped to 1.3% and my money was auto-invested at that insulting level)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 25, 2016 11:49:42 GMT
I finally left RS when the 'market rate' dropped to 1.3% and my money was auto-invested at that insulting level <shrug> Sorry, but that sounds like petulance on a par with complaining because FC's autobodge bought you a duffer. If you leave the auto-invest tools to their own devices, you have to accept that you could do better with a small amount of involvement. Going onto RS once a day and sweeping the night's repayments into a rate YOU deem appropriate takes about ten seconds flat.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Feb 25, 2016 13:13:44 GMT
I finally left RS when the 'market rate' dropped to 1.3% and my money was auto-invested at that insulting level <shrug> Sorry, but that sounds like petulance on a par with complaining because FC's autobodge bought you a duffer. If you leave the auto-invest tools to their own devices, you have to accept that you could do better with a small amount of involvement. Going onto RS once a day and sweeping the night's repayments into a rate YOU deem appropriate takes about ten seconds flat. OK but it was just the final straw. I was already running it down because the monthly rate was only about 3% and the AC QAA offers 3.75% with instant access. RS might be better at longer terms for all I know but I don't invest in any long term loans, as forecasting is difficult, particularly about the future.
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happy
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Post by happy on Feb 25, 2016 16:42:33 GMT
I have been on P2P for about a year on 7 platforms, happy with most that I have invested in though have avoided the more exotic high interest platforms so far.
love AC with the relaxed interaction needed even for hands-on selective investment via the MLIA, no bots, no feeding frenzy/fastest finger or disfunctional SM sub-culture to contend with. With AC you can do selective P2P with Due Diligence and still have a life! my personal favourite ATM.
RS is a breeze manually setting your own rate, you should never need to fall foul of market rate crashes! I get pretty good rates average 5y +6.3% / 3y 5.6% / 1M 3.7% and never got stung with a low-rate loan contract I didn't want. With amortized loan repayments even in the 5 year market you are only putting about 50% of your capital on the market for longer than 2 years so I'm happy with 6.3% and good PF protection for a decent chunk of my total P2P investment.
Probably looking to disinvest in Z depending on rates etc post their new offerings as current offering is marginal at 5% IMO and only looks like going down.
Biggest disappointment for me is FC, rates dropped since fixed rate, masively time consuming, have to spend hours checking web site almost constantly to have any chance of beating the bots to the decent deals especially any B-E loans worth having, spend a huge amount of time working through seemingly endless low-grade suposedly A+/A loans (many of which seem to be WL rejects now) to find the odd one that you would be prepared to consider lending to at circa 8% unsecured! I have highly diversified (+300 loans) hand picked portfolio but still suffered almost 1% of loans defaulting/3+ months late (all A grade loans worryingly!). Have moved more to secured property loans recently but even these are not great value for A+loans at 8% with no cashback and 10% A property loans are getting pretty rare now. SM now seems awash with flipped property parts and bot purchased c/d/e loans at a premium. IMO fixed rates have killed any oppportunity to make a decent return vs. time invested on FC so will be winding down this little venture soon.
Nobody mentions LW much. I would be interested in any views on them, I know they are small have a little toe in here but not sure if I should increase it.
Thanks for all the help and advice the members of this forum gives us newer investors, very much appreciated, stay happy!
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 25, 2016 16:58:33 GMT
happy Para five - could you change RS into FC
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Feb 25, 2016 17:06:38 GMT
OK but it was just the final straw. I was already running it down because the monthly rate was only about 3% and the AC QAA offers 3.75% with instant access. Hmm. I'd missed the existence of that completely. Interesting. Ah - just noticed the £50k cap. I'm sitting at 6.4% in RS 5yr (amortising). But, obviously, if you don't do longer-term, that's irrelevant.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 25, 2016 18:19:23 GMT
OK but it was just the final straw. I was already running it down because the monthly rate was only about 3% and the AC QAA offers 3.75% with instant access. RS might be better at longer terms for all I know but I don't invest in any long term loans, as forecasting is difficult, particularly about the future. My experience is that you can reinvest in the RS monthly market at 3.6/3.7%
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Feb 25, 2016 20:40:30 GMT
OK but it was just the final straw. I was already running it down because the monthly rate was only about 3% and the AC QAA offers 3.75% with instant access. RS might be better at longer terms for all I know but I don't invest in any long term loans, as forecasting is difficult, particularly about the future. My experience is that you can reinvest in the RS monthly market at 3.6/3.7% Well that's still less than AC and you have to wait a month for your money so no use for funds waiting for loans on the 12% platforms. You would be mad to take a risky 3.7% if you have not already maxed out on the accounts with FSCS paying 3%+ (IMHO).
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caesium
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Post by caesium on Feb 25, 2016 21:05:50 GMT
My experience is that you can reinvest in the RS monthly market at 3.6/3.7% Well that's still less than AC and you have to wait a month for your money so no use for funds waiting for loans on the 12% platforms. You would be mad to take a risky 3.7% if you have not already maxed out on the accounts with FSCS paying 3%+ (IMHO). You can sell-out free of charge on the RS monthly market now, as of about a week ago.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Feb 25, 2016 21:35:38 GMT
Well that's still less than AC and you have to wait a month for your money so no use for funds waiting for loans on the 12% platforms. You would be mad to take a risky 3.7% if you have not already maxed out on the accounts with FSCS paying 3%+ (IMHO). You can sell-out free of charge on the RS monthly market now, as of about a week ago. That's new since I left. I can't see why it is called a monthly market if it is instant access. I expect it has been hurt by AC QAA which is why they have done it.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 25, 2016 22:36:08 GMT
I can't see why it is called a monthly market if it is instant access. It's a monthly, but with zero penalty to cash-in the loan parts. They also appear to be renaming it the access product...
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