homes119
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Post by homes119 on Mar 6, 2016 13:19:08 GMT
I am resident in the EU and started investing in UK p2p about a year ago. I did some research (but I plan to contact a tax advisor) and my understanding is that it is the P2P platform's responsibility to withhold interest at source, if any, and the non-residents p2p interest income is limited to the tax withheld at source. It is based on this text. www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/saimmanual/saim1170.htmCould anyone confirm my interpretation? From this text www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/overview I deduce that I nevertheless have to report my income to HRMC. However, I find potentially contradicting information on other sources saying that UK source savings/investment income under 10,000 pounds typically need not be declared. All I have is a couple of 100 pounds of interest income from UK and nothing else. Could someone enlighten me? Do I need to do anything? Do I have to complete a Self Assessment? Complete a tax return? Will I have to pay any tax? If so, will it fall under the "Personal Allowance"? Does this mean I have to pay tax and then reclaim? I am not requesting professional tax advice but I would like to be informed before contacting a tax professional. Thanks in advance for your help
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Post by wiseclerk on Mar 6, 2016 13:22:19 GMT
I am also based outside the UK in the EU. None of the UK platforms I use are withholding any tax. Taxation happens at the place of my residence. This is not tax advice - seek professional advice for your situation.
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homes119
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Post by homes119 on Mar 6, 2016 13:34:41 GMT
I am also based outside the UK in the EU. None of the UK platforms I use are withholding any tax. Taxation happens at the place of my residence. This is not tax advice - seek professional advice for your situation. Thanks wiseclerk, it's just for my understanding, so you do not report interest income to HRMC since it is below the 10,000 pound threshold?
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Mar 6, 2016 13:42:32 GMT
From what I have read it is possible that the UK government will in future require P2P platforms to deduct tax, however that is not the case now. If they do so I would expect that you could submit a form R105 mentioned in your link which is currently used to prevent banks and building societies from deducting tax from your interest payments. This is not a professional opinion either. ............................
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0risk
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Post by 0risk on Sept 27, 2016 14:06:22 GMT
I am resident in the EU and started investing in UK p2p about a year ago. I did some research (but I plan to contact a tax advisor) and my understanding is that it is the P2P platform's responsibility to withhold interest at source, if any, and the non-residents p2p interest income is limited to the tax withheld at source. It is based on this text. www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/saimmanual/saim1170.htmCould anyone confirm my interpretation? From this text www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/overview I deduce that I nevertheless have to report my income to HRMC. However, I find potentially contradicting information on other sources saying that UK source savings/investment income under 10,000 pounds typically need not be declared. All I have is a couple of 100 pounds of interest income from UK and nothing else. Could someone enlighten me? Do I need to do anything? Do I have to complete a Self Assessment? Complete a tax return? Will I have to pay any tax? If so, will it fall under the "Personal Allowance"? Does this mean I have to pay tax and then reclaim? Hi Homes, Let me first thank you for your study, it was very helpful to me. I live in Brazil, which has no double taxation agreement to the Uk. I've been through several documents, and I agree with your interpretation, but I couldn't find the reference to the 10,000 exemption. In my case, which is a bit different than yours, there seems to be a loophole. I should pay taxation at source, but the p2p platforms currently do not deduct tax, following instructions by HMRC. So how can I pay taxation if liability is limited to tax deducted at source (zero) What do you think of this? So what have you decided to do? Have you more news on this subject? (I received very little interest too and only recently. I'm not keen to register in HMRC and do a self assessment. It would be much easier to be deducted at source.)
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james
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Post by james on Sept 28, 2016 2:03:00 GMT
Peer to peer platforms do not deduct have to income tax. In the UK from 6 April 2016 no normal savings accounts deduct income tax. Not deducting tax at source does not mean that there is no income tax liability. It just means that the tax payer has to tell HMRC and ask HMRC to tell them the tax bill. HMRC will have online tax accounts in the future that will show the interest information sent to them by interest payers and they will use that to produce tax bills for UK residents. HMRC guidance for you is at Tax on your UK income if you live abroad. You do not have a personal allowance that is tax free, the £10,000 that homes119 mentioned, unless you are a citizen of an EU country, you worked for the UK government in the tax year or it is included in a double-taxation agreement. There is a £1000 a year Personal Savings Allowance which makes that much interest tax free but you will need to check whether that includes you. My guess is that it does not unless you are a citizen of an EU country. There is a summary of double taxation agreements from HMRC but as you say, Brazil is not on that list. This means that you may be liable to pay income tax to HMRC and Brazil on the same money. But Brazil might let you deduct the UK tax that you have paid, you need to check what the law of Brazil says. From 2018 at the latest UK and Brazil will start to share income information so no later than that the authorities in Brazil will be told about your UK interest income. Brazil is not one of the 54 countries that start by the end of 2017.
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0risk
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Post by 0risk on Sept 29, 2016 1:45:05 GMT
Peer to peer platforms do not deduct have to income tax. In the UK from 6 April 2016 no normal savings accounts deduct income tax. Not deducting tax at source does not mean that there is no income tax liability. It just means that the tax payer has to tell HMRC and ask HMRC to tell them the tax bill. HMRC will have online tax accounts in the future that will show the interest information sent to them by interest payers and they will use that to produce tax bills for UK residents. HMRC guidance for you is at Tax on your UK income if you live abroad. You do not have a personal allowance that is tax free, the £10,000 that homes119 mentioned, unless you are a citizen of an EU country, you worked for the UK government in the tax year or it is included in a double-taxation agreement. There is a £1000 a year Personal Savings Allowance which makes that much interest tax free but you will need to check whether that includes you. My guess is that it does not unless you are a citizen of an EU country. There is a summary of double taxation agreements from HMRC but as you say, Brazil is not on that list. This means that you may be liable to pay income tax to HMRC and Brazil on the same money. But Brazil might let you deduct the UK tax that you have paid, you need to check what the law of Brazil says. From 2018 at the latest UK and Brazil will start to share income information so no later than that the authorities in Brazil will be told about your UK interest income. Brazil is not one of the 54 countries that start by the end of 2017. Thank you James. A really helpful post. I now understand my situation better. I'm not entitled to personal allowance nor personal savings allowance. As you mentioned and I already checked, I can deduct UK tax when paying tax in Brazil. Following the HMRC guidance link, I have to fill a tax return form, SA 100 (as a foreigner I can't use online service). And also SA109 (residence section). I still don't know if I must register for self assessment. I don't have a UTR, so I believe I must get one. It says one should fill a SA1 form (but the address form doesn't look appropriated for foreigners.)
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homes119
Member of DD Central
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Post by homes119 on Sept 30, 2016 22:22:39 GMT
I am resident in the EU and started investing in UK p2p about a year ago. I did some research (but I plan to contact a tax advisor) and my understanding is that it is the P2P platform's responsibility to withhold interest at source, if any, and the non-residents p2p interest income is limited to the tax withheld at source. It is based on this text. www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/saimmanual/saim1170.htmCould anyone confirm my interpretation? From this text www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/overview I deduce that I nevertheless have to report my income to HRMC. However, I find potentially contradicting information on other sources saying that UK source savings/investment income under 10,000 pounds typically need not be declared. All I have is a couple of 100 pounds of interest income from UK and nothing else. Could someone enlighten me? Do I need to do anything? Do I have to complete a Self Assessment? Complete a tax return? Will I have to pay any tax? If so, will it fall under the "Personal Allowance"? Does this mean I have to pay tax and then reclaim? Hi Homes, Let me first thank you for your study, it was very helpful to me. I live in Brazil, which has no double taxation agreement to the Uk. I've been through several documents, and I agree with your interpretation, but I couldn't find the reference to the 10,000 exemption. In my case, which is a bit different than yours, there seems to be a loophole. I should pay taxation at source, but the p2p platforms currently do not deduct tax, following instructions by HMRC. So how can I pay taxation if liability is limited to tax deducted at source (zero) What do you think of this? So what have you decided to do? Have you more news on this subject? (I received very little interest too and only recently. I'm not keen to register in HMRC and do a self assessment. It would be much easier to be deducted at source.) I've decided to do nothing as the interest income I receive is way below the personal allowance. I'm still not sure if I have to do a self assessment, pay the tax and then claim it back via the R43 form or just send the R43 HMRC form to discharge myself of tax or do nothing as I am below the allowance threshold and no tax has been withheld.
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james
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Post by james on Oct 1, 2016 7:48:40 GMT
I've decided to do nothing as the interest income I receive is way below the personal allowance. I'm still not sure if I have to do a self assessment, pay the tax and then claim it back via the R43 form or just send the R43 HMRC form to discharge myself of tax or do nothing as I am below the allowance threshold and no tax has been withheld. Just send the R43. If HMRC want more they will tell you.
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homes119
Member of DD Central
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Post by homes119 on Oct 1, 2016 20:49:52 GMT
I've decided to do nothing as the interest income I receive is way below the personal allowance. I'm still not sure if I have to do a self assessment, pay the tax and then claim it back via the R43 form or just send the R43 HMRC form to discharge myself of tax or do nothing as I am below the allowance threshold and no tax has been withheld. Just send the R43. If HMRC want more they will tell you. Thanks James!
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0risk
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Post by 0risk on Oct 1, 2016 23:26:28 GMT
I'm still not sure if I have to do a self assessment, pay the tax and then claim it back via the R43 form or just send the R43 HMRC form to discharge myself of tax or do nothing as I am below the allowance threshold and no tax has been withheld. Thanks Homes119 for the feedback. Do you still see the apparent contradiction in that taxes to non residents are limited to what they are deducted at source, and them being zero I wouldn't have to pay taxes in the UK? Or am I misunderstanding something? I found other links with this information: See also this post by pikestaff : I still don't understand.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 2, 2016 21:39:43 GMT
0risk I don't understand either! My post which you cite was written when UK tax law required tax to be deducted at source on most UK interest. It was administratively convenient then to restrict the liability of non-residents to the tax actually deducted. With the recent change in the tax law so that interest is no longer deducted at source, it would have made sense to remove this restriction, with the result that non-residents would have to declare all their UK interest income to HMRC. However, the latest version of HS300 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/non-residents-and-investment-income-hs300-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs300-non-residents-and-investment-income-2016) suggests that the restriction still applies. I find this surprising. Edit: The above is incorrect. See my post of 3/10/2016.
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james
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Post by james on Oct 3, 2016 4:35:43 GMT
I also don't understand. I suggest that it is a situation where a question direct to HMRC is needed.
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Post by propman on Oct 3, 2016 8:05:32 GMT
Puruing tax from non-residents is pretty fruitless, so thios rule basically states the practical result in any case, otherwise only the honest would end up paying!
The obvious answer would have been to retain interest deduction at source for non-residents. However this would be illegal for EU nationals and so could only have applied to a minority.
- PM
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0risk
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Post by 0risk on Oct 3, 2016 11:49:36 GMT
Thanks guys. Really appreciated. In fact I asked HMRC: I've got this reply: It doesn't help. So they say p2p platforms should be deducting at source when paying non-uk residents. This is not happening..... Maybe things will clear up until the end of the fiscal year. Just especulating here. As propman implied above, it may pointless to pursue this interest. Also, UK has double taxation agreement with most of the world. Those agreements in general give tax rights to the other countries. It may be simpler not to tax at source for small amounts. They do not need to process requests by individuals for double-taxation relief and to return tax volumes to other countries.
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