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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 9, 2016 18:25:19 GMT
That'll work on DFL02 .. and DFL01 too. The bottom up allocation left a lot of folks gasping for more ...
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 9, 2016 18:25:43 GMT
My mistake; corrected on my DFL2 overview. Which gives a current LTV of 104%.........  Cooling Dude - That is the completely wrong way to think of these. It isn't 104% LTV, as we are not asking for the full amount of building loan on day 1, only indicating that we will need that amount over the lifetime of the build which will be increasing in value throughout. DFLs need to be considered from their GDV £ risk and amount of funding at a single point in that 12 month build programme. Thought I'd let things settle down before I replied to your comment savingstream  This was posted on the DFL 1 thread but was in relation to DFL 2, so I've replied here.... I'm still getting my head round these new DFLs, but I do think I'm on the ball now (£500,000 per tranche is nice and simple to understand, but these existing loans rolling into the Exeter loans complicated things somewhat). In regards to all DFLs, I completely understand that the one of the most important things to consider is the GDV, and will be the primary consideration I will look at when investing in one. However, as the price fluctuates, and the total loan increases with tranche releases, the risk changes and that is why I like to know the current LTV of the security. After all, if a development goes wrong before completion, then the LTGV is not important; it will be the LTV on the day. I trust your professional DD savingstream , I really do; your track record has few rivals and is the reason I only invest with your platform. However, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I didn't do my own DD, as it is at the end of the day my money  I want to congratulate you on what seems to have been a successful day with the release of these new DFLs. I also want to thank you for the prompt & helpful communication in the last 24 hours.... I know us Forum Investors can be testing for you (In my head, you have a dart board with our avatars on the different numbers.....) but I think I can speak for most of us when I say that your participation here is appreciated. So thank you once again; have a glass of brandy on me
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 9, 2016 21:22:01 GMT
In regards to all DFLs, I completely understand that the one of the most important things to consider is the GDV, and will be the primary consideration I will look at when investing in one. However, as the price fluctuates, and the total loan increases with tranche releases, the risk changes and that is why I like to know the current LTV of the security. After all, if a development goes wrong before completion, then the LTGV is not important; it will be the LTV on the day. While I agree this would be great info to have, I really don't think anyone would be prepared to supply it. The Monitoring Surveyor's job is to verify the quantity of work has been done, and probably the cost of that work. On the basis of that, a lender generally would be prepared to advance a reasonable fraction (70%?) of that to allow the developer to finance the next bits of work to be done. The cost of the work, however, is not the value of that work. It might be a reasonable approximation as long as the developer continues working until the project is completed. If they don't -- and that's the situation where the actual value and LTV become critical to the lender -- the value is probably too much of an unknown for even a trained MS/valuer to attempt to quantify. That's because it depends so much on the state and quality of the work done and whether anyone who would buy the part-finished project would accept the work as it had been done, as opposed to wanting to undo some of it and redo it their way. It is in that situation that the value of the property could suffer and the LTV rise considerably, but I really think the chance of getting a professional to quantify that situation -- which is only hypothetical while the developer continues to work -- is minimal. They might give it a go if you paid them enough, but the cost could well be prohibitive. But that's JMHO, and I'm no expert, etc., etc.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 9, 2016 21:32:46 GMT
In regards to all DFLs, I completely understand that the one of the most important things to consider is the GDV, and will be the primary consideration I will look at when investing in one. However, as the price fluctuates, and the total loan increases with tranche releases, the risk changes and that is why I like to know the current LTV of the security. After all, if a development goes wrong before completion, then the LTGV is not important; it will be the LTV on the day. While I agree this would be great info to have, I really don't think anyone would be prepared to supply it. The Monitoring Surveyor's job is to verify the quantity of work has been done, and probably the cost of that work. On the basis of that, a lender generally would be prepared to advance a reasonable fraction (70%?) of that to allow the developer to finance the next bits of work to be done. The cost of the work, however, is not the value of that work. It might be a reasonable approximation as long as the developer continues working until the project is completed. If they don't -- and that's the situation where the actual value and LTV become critical to the lender -- the value is probably too much of an unknown for even a trained MS/valuer to attempt to quantify. That's because it depends so much on the state and quality of the work done and whether anyone who would buy the part-finished project would accept the work as it had been done, as opposed to wanting to undo some of it and redo it their way. It is in that situation that the value of the property could suffer and the LTV rise considerably, but I really think the chance of getting a professional to quantify that situation -- which is only hypothetical while the developer continues to work -- is minimal. They might give it a go if you paid them enough, but the cost could well be prohibitive. But that's JMHO, and I'm no expert, etc., etc. I do understand that a surveyor can't be expected to value a site mid-development; it was explained to me on another thread is very good detail by Jaydee (who I believe is in the industry). The response from SS was after I estimated an LTV on the current land value (determined by the valuation report) using the first tranche amount.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 10, 2016 10:03:45 GMT
I trust your professional DD savingstream , I really do; your track record has few rivals and is the reason I only invest with your platform. However, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I didn't do my own DD, as it is at the end of the day my money I'm happy to agree with most of your post but I must take issue with your track record has few rivals because DD is not really tested until there are problems and unless I'm wrong, there's only been one default so far so no track track record has been established yet. Just sayin' £109,606,557 and only one default..... and not one customer have lost a single penny. I do agree that that a longer period is required to properly judge the security of SS, but ATM they're not doing bad.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 10, 2016 11:40:04 GMT
£109,606,557 and only one default... Or, to look at it another way, one's gone south out of about 30 loans that are showing on the current site as finished - but the security proved to be adequate. They dealt with it well, it seems (before my time), but it was only a tiddler.
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bigal
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Post by bigal on May 17, 2016 15:51:42 GMT
New tranche just put on the SM - get there fast if you want a bite!
(Approx £380k when I saw it)
Edit - all gone in under 10 minutes. SS update says it was £500k
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locutus
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Post by locutus on May 17, 2016 15:58:20 GMT
New tranche just put on the SM - get there fast if you want a bite!
(Approx £380k) All gone now. Some SM activity though.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on May 17, 2016 16:31:33 GMT
So much for SS creating a tranche and putting it on the PM Happy couple of seconds for those at a PC, on the SM page and FFF. Thanks SS  |
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 17, 2016 17:31:26 GMT
So much for SS creating a tranche and putting it on the PM Happy couple of seconds for those at a PC, on the SM page and FFF. Thanks SS So, after all the assurances savingstream gave us that further tranches in DFLs would be added to the Pipeline so that we could set pre-funding targets and so that the allocation would be done fairly, SS have dumped a tranche straight onto the SM for a FFF feeding frenzy. What kind of a Mickey Mouse organisation is this? I know they're perfectly entitled to change the rules whenever they want to, but they're not going to win any friends and build any confidence in their platform if they don't keep their investors informed about what the rules are. Changing the rules without telling anyone is rather unprofessional and cannot help but give the impression that they're running this business on a whim. We are not amused! 
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pom
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Post by pom on May 17, 2016 17:36:27 GMT
So much for SS creating a tranche and putting it on the PM Happy couple of seconds for those at a PC, on the SM page and FFF. Thanks SS So, after all the assurances savingstream gave us that further tranches in DFLs would be added to the Pipeline so that we could set pre-funding targets and so that the allocation would be done fairly, SS have dumped a tranche straight onto the SM for a FFF feeding frenzy. What kind of a Mickey Mouse organisation is this? I know they're perfectly entitled to change the rules whenever they want to, but they're not going to win any friends and build any confidence in their platform if they don't keep their investors informed about what the rules are. Changing the rules without telling anyone is rather unprofessional and cannot help but give the impression that they're running this business on a whim. We are not amused! I must have missed something then as I was always expecting them to release further tranches that way - it's what they've done in the past when they've been witholding parts of loans after all
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 17, 2016 17:39:01 GMT
2. What method will be used to decide how much of the total loan is released at each stage?
Each tranche will be for £500,000 and will be payable to the developer on receipt of a satisfactory QS report. We will release this to SS investors for review before drawing down upon it.
With regards to the build costs - we are providing 100% of these to the borrower. We will release these costs to the borrower in a tranched format (£500k at a time), following receipt of a report from the QS to confirm that the borrower has complied with his construction obligations. i.e he has spent £500k on the build, the value has increased by £x and we can lend him another tranche of £500k minus fees and interest for 12 months. In this way, we can control the overall amount we have at risk based on the status of the build programme.
We will release the tranches via the prefunding system following receipt of the QS report to allow a fair distribution. Everyone will then hold pari pasu security in the single loanGuess these statements only apply to DFL1 then, as DFL2 does say they would do it exactly as they have done. FAQ amended accordingly - lets face it they have form for changing their minds without telling anyone. Apologies if anyone was misled by my FAQ, just going on the facts as presented from the horse's mouth. Unfortorunately turned out it was actually its arse!!!
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on May 17, 2016 17:48:34 GMT
2. What method will be used to decide how much of the total loan is released at each stage?
Each tranche will be for £500,000 and will be payable to the developer on receipt of a satisfactory QS report. We will release this to SS investors for review before drawing down upon it.
With regards to the build costs - we are providing 100% of these to the borrower. We will release these costs to the borrower in a tranched format (£500k at a time), following receipt of a report from the QS to confirm that the borrower has complied with his construction obligations. i.e he has spent £500k on the build, the value has increased by £x and we can lend him another tranche of £500k minus fees and interest for 12 months. In this way, we can control the overall amount we have at risk based on the status of the build programme.
We will release the tranches via the prefunding system following receipt of the QS report to allow a fair distribution. Everyone will then hold pari pasu security in the single loanGuess these statements only apply to DFL1 then, as DFL2 does say they would do it exactly as they have done. FAQ amended accordingly - lets face it they have form for changing their minds without telling anyone. Apologies if anyone was misled by my FAQ, just going on the facts as presented. At the time of the first DFLs I specifically asked SS about DFLs, and the very first question I asked was (word for word)...
Thier answer for this question (non-loan specific) was... Not a happy investor ATM...
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mike
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Post by mike on May 17, 2016 22:43:05 GMT
While SS get a lot of things right every once and a while they do something like this which demonstrates a degree of arrogance and taking it's investors for granted. Not a good trait to have. Just because demand exceeds supply doesn't justify a poor attitude to customer service.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 18, 2016 1:02:22 GMT
... lets face it they have form for changing their minds without telling anyone. Apologies if anyone was misled by my FAQ, just going on the facts as presented from the horse's mouth. Unfortorunately turned out it was actually its arse!!! While SS get a lot of things right every once and a while they do something like this which demonstrates a degree of arrogance and taking it's investors for granted. Not a good trait to have. Just because demand exceeds supply doesn't justify a poor attitude to customer service. Perhaps SS believe that they will be able to run their business in such a way that demand always will exceed supply. If the situation were to swing the other way, however, they may come to regret having created such negative feelings with this episode -- and other similar ones. Reputations generally take a lot of effort to gain but are easily lost, and once lost are extremely difficult to recover.
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