yacop
Posts: 68 
Likes: 42
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Post by yacop on Mar 25, 2016 9:49:35 GMT
Based in my experince that I have with Bondora I should warn investors not invest into Bondora (anymore).
(1) Bondora does everything to roll over costs to lenders. These costs are not yet considered in the interest rates.
(2) Loans beeing overdue for just 7 days are sent to DCAs with an immediate loss of 15% of all remaining payments. It used to be just 8% a few month ago for defaulted loans only. But who cares. It is not Bondora's money.
(3) Bondora changes rules by the day, most of them against investor's interests.
(4)Bondora made big mistakes by expanding into Spain, Slovakia and partly Finland. Just look into default rates for these countries. (See my signature). Todays investor pay big for that mistake.
(5) Changes are applied retroactively!
(6) Return rates are overstated as only the unpaid principal to date is considered as lost not the total outstanding principal, even for loans in default.
(7) Return rates do not consider tax issues. This is even more concerning as high loss rates (default minus recovery) can be expected. Losses can not be deducted from income in most countries for retail investors.
(8) BONDORA as a Company made a loss in 2014 which equaled its turnover.
DO NOT INVEST WITH BONDORA. There are better platforms around.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Mar 25, 2016 10:21:50 GMT
Excellent advice with which I concur; Early investors did not agree to any of these changes but had then RETROSPECTIVELY IMPOSED in direct contravention to the loan agreements to which they signed up for. In effect these changes take away monies due to investors, against their wishes, to pay for a service, namely DCA recovery, that in most overdue cases IS NOT NECCESSARY, as many of these borrowers pay up later anyway.
Bondora management have not been truthful with investors about many issues over a long period of time, much of which was documented on the old Bondora forum, however they closed it down - I can't imagine why?
It is a real shame because it was a great platform with Estonian borrowers who are reliable, honest & trustworthy, <<redacted by mod>>. As was discussed on the Bondora forum there is a strong "Prima Facia" case for legal challenge but life is too short & lawyers are already too rich for most investors to pursue it. The fact that they are now regulated by the Estonian Financial Supervision Authority is almost laughable.
I am happy to allow my portfolio to naturally run down, as I refuse to cut off my nose to spite my face, but would not give these people another Euro even if my life depended on it.
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yacop
Posts: 68
Likes: 42
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Post by yacop on Mar 25, 2016 10:24:56 GMT
Please help us (me) share this to warn investors.
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Post by rahafoorum on Mar 25, 2016 11:50:30 GMT
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Post by aceman on Apr 22, 2016 12:19:10 GMT
Based in my experince that I have with Bondora I should warn investors not invest into Bondora (anymore). (1) Bondora does everything to roll over costs to lenders. These costs are not yet considered in the interest rates. (2) Loans beeing overdue for just 7 days are sent to DCAs with an immediate loss of 15% of all remaining payments. It used to be just 8% a few month ago for defaulted loans only. But who cares. It is not Bondora's money. (3) Bondora changes rules by the day, most of them against investor's interests. (4)Bondora made big mistakes by expanding into Spain, Slovakia and partly Finland. Just look into default rates for these countries. (See my signature). Todays investor pay big for that mistake. (5) Changes are applied retroactively! (6) Return rates are overstated as only the unpaid principal to date is considered as lost not the total outstanding principal, even for loans in default. (7) Return rates do not consider tax issues. This is even more concerning as high loss rates (default minus recovery) can be expected. Losses can not be deducted from income in most countries for retail investors. (8) BONDORA as a Company made a loss in 2014 which equaled its turnover. DO NOT INVEST WITH BONDORA. There are better platforms around. Thanks for the warning!
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Post by xyon100 on Apr 22, 2016 16:56:02 GMT
Based in my experince that I have with Bondora I should warn investors not invest into Bondora (anymore). (6) Return rates are overstated as only the unpaid principal to date is considered as lost not the total outstanding principal, even for loans in default. Yup, big time. Selling up bad loans has made this all too clear. From a stated 18 percent return to negative territory. Do NOT invest in Bondora.
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p2pmaster
investment is life.
Posts: 128
Likes: 54
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Post by p2pmaster on Apr 23, 2016 6:40:53 GMT
Tend to agree with others. I have sold many loans and transferred money to other platforms.
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Post by gmaxkenny on Apr 23, 2016 11:15:25 GMT
Winding down my loans for over a year now,have sold very few. I might still have enough Estonia loans to eventually exit with a very small profit but that may be wishful thinking. My dashboard tells me I have a €4.5K profit and am still making 15% interest. Another example of Alice Through The Looking Glass accounting as practiced by Bondora. Wish I never heard of them.
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Post by xyon100 on Apr 23, 2016 12:16:31 GMT
Going from a little over 17 percent as my headline gain, selling obviously long dead loans now has my returns at -5.5% I can only thank my lucky starts that a sixth sense kept me from investing much money here, because I confess to not understanding how the returns were worked out. Now I do understand and the headline figure is simply not true. Yes I know, don't invest unless you fully understand. It was a lesson I had already figured out though, hence the relatively small investment with Bondora.
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jo
Member of DD Central
dead
Posts: 741
Likes: 498
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Post by jo on Apr 23, 2016 14:52:05 GMT
By a combination of sales with heavy discount and some with a modest premium, I've managed to recoup 94% of my original deposit. I've 'mothballed' the account and won't bother looking at it again until the end of the year. I guesstimate that by the time the account finally runs down, I'll have a real XIRR of between 1.5% - 2.5%.....so much ado about nothing.
The euro I withdrew went straight to Mintos buyback loans and XIRR on that is running at ~13.5%.
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Post by thep2pinvestor on Apr 27, 2016 20:06:00 GMT
I have started to invest with Bondora 2 months ago, not a big amount (5 K). It's invested in 330 loans mainly bought on the secondary market. I only bought loans with debt/income < 35 %, credit history 1000, income and expenses verified, final maturity < 36 months. The max premium i am ready to pay is 5 %. Currently i have a loss of 180 Eur because of the premiums paid. I hope to wipe out the loss with the interest payments over the nex months. We will see. What i learned already is that Estate Guru is maybe 5 % of the time spent on Bondora. This means also that the return on Bondora must be significanly higher, otherwise it's not worse the time spent. Time will tell...
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 897
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Post by JamesFrance on Apr 28, 2016 7:43:34 GMT
This means also that the return on Bondora must be significanly higher, otherwise it's not worse the time spent. Time will tell... I think it will be many years from now until you find out what your return is on Bondora if any. It is all about default collection and whether interest is eventually enough to cover losses from default.
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jay
Posts: 46
Likes: 18
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Post by jay on Apr 29, 2016 0:45:46 GMT
I have started to invest with Bondora 2 months ago, not a big amount (5 K). It's invested in 330 loans mainly bought on the secondary market. I only bought loans with debt/income < 35 %, credit history 1000, income and expenses verified, final maturity < 36 months. The max premium i am ready to pay is 5 %. Currently i have a loss of 180 Eur because of the premiums paid. I hope to wipe out the loss with the interest payments over the nex months. We will see. What i learned already is that Estate Guru is maybe 5 % of the time spent on Bondora. This means also that the return on Bondora must be significanly higher, otherwise it's not worse the time spent. Time will tell... You will be sorely disapointed . Well at least you had warnings, many of them.. I wish i had some before investing there, the interest does not cover the losses.
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nick
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 825
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Post by nick on May 3, 2016 12:13:41 GMT
After a couple years of investing, I'll be happy to get my capital back let alone make any return - but I suspect I will be nursing a net loss. You have been warned!
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shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
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Post by shimself on May 3, 2016 16:07:19 GMT
But how can this be?
Surely Bondora is a leading platform for investing in European personal loans. Since 2009 we have been consistently delivering double-digit returns to over 14,162 investors on our platform.
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