pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on May 19, 2017 9:36:07 GMT
Our obligation is to state the losses but as the relief can be claimed at the point of default we also already tell lenders when loans are in a recovery process. We are planning on improving how that information is given. pikestaff you are asking me for tax advice, that I can't give because you are asking me to interpret the law. All I can say is what I have been told is the obligation of the platform by the person who drafted the legislation (and who I worked with in consultation on this). Your tax is your own responsibility. Andrew, thank you. I was not looking for tax advice but to understand who you had spoken to. To recap, my concern was that although HMRC's guidance is drafted with two triggers for claiming the relief (when a loan becomes irrecoverable or when it is treated as irrecoverable), and implies that the "treated as" relief is optional, the law as it is written does not obviously support this distinction. Among other things, I feared that the letter of the carry-forward rule might prohibit claiming relief in year 2 etc for a realised loss that could have been claimed in year 1 on a "treated as" basis. Whether that is the intention is another matter, and the important thing is how HMRC will apply the legislation in practice. It is good news that you have been talking to the author of the legislation. I am now sufficiently comfortable that HMRC truly intends the "treated as" relief to be optional and that they will not seek to deny carry-forward relief in these circumstances. This has been most helpful.
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Post by jevans4949 on May 19, 2017 10:12:03 GMT
... It is a little tedious on the non manual investment accounts to track where the money is invested making it difficult to see which loans are in recovery process. I assume you will be improving this as well when you say how the information is presented? ... We could do with a target date so we can decide whether to wait to do our tax returns or do now? ... It's going to be pretty difficult even with the manual accounts: - Going through 100 loans figuring out which ones are actually "irrecoverable". I'm not sure whether Assetz is always able to give us enough information to reach a decision on this, and always tries to maintain hope of recovering more.
- Trying to work out how much we have actually lost on each loan; downloading the statements and looking for any capital repayments.
- adding them all up.
Sprang into my mind that we also need to think about the one on the Welsh island. Furthermore, when any monies are recovered on these loans, we are going to need to track this for next year's tax return. Zopa manage to organise this.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 19, 2017 12:23:07 GMT
I agree with niceguy37 .My defaults on FC were reported as losses in the year they defaulted (15-16) FC then reported recoveries (all of 95p  ) for the following 16-17 tax year. I am going to do likewise for AC this year on the 2 loans I hold that are in default/recovery (#199 & #230) I will then declare any recoveries in the tax year that they occur. My only concern is whether to only include my GBBA holding in #230 as well due to the PF. I am mindful to put it all in as a loss on the basis that the PF is discretionary and therefore does not guarantee any pay-out in the event of capital loss. This approach fits with my understanding of the HMRC guidelines and I do not see why AC cannot simply do the same as they know the exact holdings and status on all our holdings in the black-box accounts. Surely they would just need to implement a lenders loan default/recovery ledger to provide this information for their tax statement production. EDIT: My concern with this approach is where default losses declared by the lenders are substantial but these are not reported by AC as this could lead to mismatch in the data that HMRC see and could well cause unnecessary flagging of returns for manual inspection and review by HMRC. |
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happy
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Post by happy on May 19, 2017 14:00:40 GMT
There is no status on the Browse Loans pages that shows late payment so the only certain way to check this is to visit the repayments tab of each loan. I think some people keep the payment date on their spreadsheets and do check this regularly as payments fall due, I don't as this is too much of an overhead in my view. A loan can also have a monitoring event flagged (without being late or in default), i.e. if a covenant is breached or for other issues that may affect the loan which is useful however this flag does not make it to the Browse Loans so again you have to visit the laon page of each loan to see it. Personally I stick to sorting the Browse Loans page for my invested loans and sort this by Last Updated date and I then go and check every loan that has had an update to see whats new since I last checked (which I record on my tracking sheet). The good thing about this is if someone posts a Q&A comment it updates the Last Updated date so you get the benefit of other keen CAC investors chasing up late payments etc. Some improvements would certainly be welcome here in making loan status changes more visible on the Browse Loans page. Making it flag up "there have een changes since I last looked at this loan" (like the forum threads do with the (NEW) icon) would be the ideal. Any comment on this chris with regard to your UI improvement team objectives. |
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 19, 2017 16:52:07 GMT
is there a definitive way to determine which loans are behind with interest payments or have missed their repayment date? If a loan doesn't have trading suspended on it, does that mean it is all up to date and correct? I've got £700 in one loan that's down as paying 68%! - I'm not really expecting see that again but others I don't know. Am I really expected to read the textual comments for every single loan to work out if it's started having problems and if it's behind then make an estimate of expected losses as I thought it would be as of 5th April 2017. That task seems .... Non trivial. Edit: of course, there is a list of distressed loans on the pink pages maintained by the astonishingly helpful ilmoro. Amusing that one guy with pencil and paper (or forum and keyboard) can do more in this case than the otherwise awesome computing power of AC. im afraid that list is very out of date ... wore out my pencil ... its on the list to revamp once I can find the sharpener
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baz657
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Post by baz657 on May 23, 2017 23:14:22 GMT
If it were up to the individual investor to decide on which loans had gone South what's to stop anyone, and I realise that this is an extreme to make a point, stating that loan 1, 2 and 3 were in default even though they weren't. Someone more devious than I could "write off" all of that years interest and pay no tax, and in the following years collect "recovery" payments. I realise that this would be tax evasion as opposed to avoidance but if the loophole is there I'm sure some would use it.
Or have I got it totally wrong... again.
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unmadem
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Post by unmadem on Jun 16, 2017 11:12:45 GMT
Our obligation is to state the losses but as the relief can be claimed at the point of default we also already tell lenders when loans are in a recovery process. We are planning on improving how that information is given. Any progress on this issue andrewholgate ? It is some time since the end of the tax year.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jun 16, 2017 11:33:35 GMT
AC have to report to HMRC by the end of June. I'd expect them to give us statements before then, certainly no later. I got my TC tax statement yesterday, so now I'm only waiting on AC.
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min
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Post by min on Jun 29, 2017 9:23:14 GMT
AC have to report to HMRC by the end of June. I'd expect them to give us statements before then, certainly no later. I got my TC tax statement yesterday, so now I'm only waiting on AC. And we are still waiting. andrewholgate is anything happening on this. Tax return all ready to go except for AC. All others where loans are in recovery are reporting them as losses.
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Post by jevans4949 on Jun 30, 2017 8:45:52 GMT
If the Assetz IT team are under too much pressure to produce individualised reports, could someone in Assetz at least let us know the percentage of lost capital on all of loans that they reckon to be eligible for tax relief, and the date on which they came to that conclusion? We could then look at our individual holdings at that date and make our own calculations.
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Post by andrewholgate on Jun 30, 2017 12:57:50 GMT
AC have to report to HMRC by the end of June. I'd expect them to give us statements before then, certainly no later. I got my TC tax statement yesterday, so now I'm only waiting on AC. And we are still waiting. andrewholgate is anything happening on this. Tax return all ready to go except for AC. All others where loans are in recovery are reporting them as losses. We will have the amended reports live before the tax return deadline.
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Post by andrewholgate on Jun 30, 2017 13:35:00 GMT
There are two SA deadlines. End of September for those who want any liability rolling into their PAYE code, and January for all SA returns.
We will have it done well in advance of September. If HMRC need further evidence from us, they will ask.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jun 30, 2017 14:37:32 GMT
Earlier would be helpful so I can hopefully adjust my upfront tax payment on account
Thanks
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Jul 1, 2017 9:40:13 GMT
Why is there any need to wait for an AC tax statement,
Are the online figures (Reports / Tax Statement) not accurate enough?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 1, 2017 9:43:00 GMT
Why is there any need to wait for an AC tax statement, Are the online figures ( Reports / Tax Statement) not accurate enough? The reports as currently displayed do not yet show capital sums that may be offset as "irrecoverable" (because they have entered "legal recovery processes") against your other P2P income, under HMRC's guidance SAIM 12000.
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) for the following 16-17 tax year. I am going to do likewise for AC this year on the 2 loans I hold that are in default/recovery (#199 & #230) I will then declare any recoveries in the tax year that they occur. My only concern is whether to only include my GBBA holding in #230 as well due to the PF. I am mindful to put it all in as a loss on the basis that the PF is discretionary and therefore does not guarantee any pay-out in the event of capital loss. 
