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Tax
Jun 1, 2016 19:46:38 GMT
Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 1, 2016 19:46:38 GMT
I'm going to just take the numbers off the FC tax statement print out .. even if that is not correct, it is almost certainly what FC will be reporting to HMRC ('if asked' or 'just one general principals we send them a database tape') so using anything else is just going to open a bigger worm can. Now if you want that as advice a) someone is going to have to charge you and b) you'll need to fill in a couple of reams of paperwork. 8>.
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nick
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Tax
Jun 1, 2016 20:21:36 GMT
Post by nick on Jun 1, 2016 20:21:36 GMT
I'm going to just take the numbers off the FC tax statement print out .. even if that is not correct, it is almost certainly what FC will be reporting to HMRC ('if asked' or 'just one general principals we send them a database tape') so using anything else is just going to open a bigger worm can. Now if you want that as advice a) someone is going to have to charge you and b) you'll need to fill in a couple of reams of paperwork. 8>. But both net and gross figures are given on the FC statement, if it was only one of the figures I agree that it would be best just to go with that. Whilst a single year's fee may not be that material, it could soon become material if accumulated over several years which could be very costly if the treatment is wrong and is picked up by a query further down the line. I find it hard to believe that there is no clearer authoritative guidance and that the platform themselves are not more specific regarding the potential tax implications. Potential tax implications of must other investments are usually more specifically disclosed by sponsors/issues not withstanding the usual caveats about individuals needing to seek their own advice for their own specific circumstances. Do FC really believe that all their investors should individually seek professional tax advice on something so fundamental. The industry is harming itself by being ambiguous. Rant over....
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nick
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Tax
Jun 1, 2016 20:35:12 GMT
Post by nick on Jun 1, 2016 20:35:12 GMT
Just report "Income payments made to you" as your gross (untaxed) interest. This used to be called "Net payments made to you", but FC changed the wording of its tax statements since mid-April. Thanks for the background - they do seem to be pushing you towards the "net" figure and I imagine most others will be reporting that so I will seek safety in numbers......
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jun 1, 2016 20:47:32 GMT
Just report "Income payments made to you" as your gross (untaxed) interest. This used to be called "Net payments made to you", but FC changed the wording of its tax statements since mid-April. They did?? Oh I probably missed that since I printed mine out and archived them as soon as they appeared. Still waiting, iirc, for at least one platform to produce a usable number though. Anyway yes, "net payments made to me' is, afaiac, my gross taxable interest income. I suspect HMRC would do better to get an extra 0.001% out of Google or Starbucks than to chase the whole P2P world for tax on fees or cashbacks or whatever.
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blender
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Tax
Jun 1, 2016 21:57:29 GMT
Post by blender on Jun 1, 2016 21:57:29 GMT
I am with the ovine opinion. If HMRC disagree they can ask me for the rest. But they have been happy for the past 3 years.
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grantw
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Post by grantw on Jul 24, 2016 12:34:50 GMT
It seems pretty clear to me that FC's fees are not allowable for tax purposes and therefore lenders should technically be taxed on the gross interest received i.e. not net of the FC fees.
FC are however definitely trying to encourage lenders to declare the net by the layout of their tax statement probably because the other treatment quite significantly impacts the actual returns that lenders get. (Assuming fees of say 10% on gross income and a 40% marginal tax rate, this would equate to a reduction in net return after tax of 0.36%)
FC seem to be very opaque about the point, possibly because they seem to be at a clear disadvantage to many other P2P platforms where all the fees are charged to the borrower which effectively means the fees are tax allowable to lenders.
I cannot really understand why they don't switch their fees wholly to the lender side (and trim the gross returns) to ensure the problem never arises. I thought I read somewhere that they were going to be doing this but it doesn't seem to have happened.
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blender
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Tax
Jul 24, 2016 15:21:29 GMT
Post by blender on Jul 24, 2016 15:21:29 GMT
It seems pretty clear to me that FC's fees are not allowable for tax purposes and therefore lenders should technically be taxed on the gross interest received i.e. not net of the FC fees. FC are however definitely trying to encourage lenders to declare the net by the layout of their tax statement probably because the other treatment quite significantly impacts the actual returns that lenders get. (Assuming fees of say 10% on gross income and a 40% marginal tax rate, this would equate to a reduction in net return after tax of 0.36%) FC seem to be very opaque about the point, possibly because they seem to be at a clear disadvantage to many other P2P platforms where all the fees are charged to the borrower which effectively means the fees are tax allowable to lenders. I cannot really understand why they don't switch their fees wholly to the lender side (and trim the gross returns) to ensure the problem never arises. I thought I read somewhere that they were going to be doing this but it doesn't seem to have happened. Do you mean the borrower side? If so I believe they consider that they have done that through the wording particularly in the T&Cs. It's just that the website still does the calculations as if the interest is paid gross and the lenders pay a fee - which is definitely not the case - oh no no no. Now imagine the work needed to implement the change on the website, presumably for the whole loan book and then consider how long the 'that website again - again - again - ad infinitum' thread would become. No doubt it will be in the mark 2 website.
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grantw
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Tax
Jul 24, 2016 17:00:12 GMT
Post by grantw on Jul 24, 2016 17:00:12 GMT
Ahh yes sorry - I did mean the borrower side. So you are suggesting they are now just charging fees to borrowers and not to lenders and its just the website that is not presenting it clearly? Perhaps that is right then, however my lending account seems to have FC fees regularly charged to it so it looks very much like the lender is being charged rather than the borrower paying a netted off rate because the fees have been charged to them. I will have a look at the T&Cs anyway - Thanks
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Investboy
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Trying to recover from P2P revolution
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Tax
Jul 27, 2016 15:54:41 GMT
Post by Investboy on Jul 27, 2016 15:54:41 GMT
Ahh yes sorry - I did mean the borrower side. So you are suggesting they are now just charging fees to borrowers and not to lenders and its just the website that is not presenting it clearly? Perhaps that is right then, however my lending account seems to have FC fees regularly charged to it so it looks very much like the lender is being charged rather than the borrower paying a netted off rate because the fees have been charged to them. I will have a look at the T&Cs anyway - Thanks Me and my accountant would be grateful for a quote from T&C that confirms we're not paying fees but the borrower.
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nick
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Post by nick on Apr 19, 2017 21:42:25 GMT
Say I have an FC 2016-17 tax statement that looks like the one below (values are not real :>). Given the HMRC guidelines on P2P lending, one is supposed to enter interest on SA101 under "Other UK income, Interest from gilt-edged and other UK securities, deeply discounted securities and accrued income profits". box 3 - interest received gross less any bad debt relief from all platforms box 1 - interest received net less any bad debt relief from all platforms box 2 - full amount of tax deducted from the interest My assumption is that the value of £1,606.10 (i.e. £1,794.00 - 187.90) is entered in both boxes 3 and 1, and £0.00 in box 2 as no tax is deducted. Is this correct and, if so, where does the £0.68 [Recoveries on principal defaulted in prior periods (since 6.4.15)] come into play? Do I need to add this to the values for boxes 3 and 1, or is it already part of these values? Or do I ignore it? Your assumptions are correct. The recoveries on principal defaulted in prior periods (ie the 68p) should be added back to boxes 3 and 1, to the extent that the relief on the bad debt to which the recovery relates was claimed in the prior period. If no claim for bad debt relief was made in respect to the bad debt that has now been subsequently recovered, no adjustment is required. This process is to ensure that any bad debt relief previously enjoyed is reversed on any subsequent recovery of the debt.
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blender
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Tax
Apr 19, 2017 22:20:25 GMT
Post by blender on Apr 19, 2017 22:20:25 GMT
Happy with that, except why does it have to be entered into box 1 as well as 3? 3 is interest paid gross - yes. 1 is interest paid net, 2 being the tax on the net figure in 1. Why declare it twice?
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ozaz
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Tax
Aug 9, 2018 16:09:45 GMT
Post by ozaz on Aug 9, 2018 16:09:45 GMT
Will need to do my first declaration for P2P income this year
After looking at the funding circle tax statement and reading this thread I'm confused as to which amount I use from the Funding Circle statement? "Total interest paid by borrower" or "Income payments made to you"
Based on experience gained since this thread was active I wonder if someone could clarify for me?
Thanks
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cb25
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Tax
Aug 9, 2018 16:24:02 GMT
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Post by cb25 on Aug 9, 2018 16:24:02 GMT
Will need to do my first declaration for P2P income this year After looking at the funding circle tax statement and reading this thread I'm confused as to which amount I use from the FS statement? "Total interest paid by borrower" or "Income payments made to you" Based on experience gained since this thread was active I wonder if someone could clarify for me? Thanks Assuming you're still talking about Funding Circle (as you said "I'm confused as to which amount I use from the FS statement?"), my accountant uses -Total interest paid by borrower (as 'Income payments made to you' is after FC Fees, which you can't claim for in his view), PLUS -Total eligible bad debt in period (it's a negative value), PLUS -Recoveries on principal defaulted in prior periods (since 6.4.15)
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ozaz
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Tax
Aug 9, 2018 16:33:57 GMT
Post by ozaz on Aug 9, 2018 16:33:57 GMT
Thanks.
Yes, I did mean Funding Circle. I've now edited my post to reflect this.
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cb25
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Tax
Aug 9, 2018 16:59:56 GMT
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Post by cb25 on Aug 9, 2018 16:59:56 GMT
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